Posted on 04/29/2016 5:46:09 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
You're right, I read the article too quickly and missed that. My bad. However, given the fact that no German serviceman was ever punished for refusing to kill Jews I strongly suspect he could have found another rear echelon assignment if he had requested it.
And..? Therefore..?
Look, I realize this is difficult to believe given what we know about the Nazis. I didn't believe it at first. Like you I just assumed such a thing to be impossible. But it's true. No one was forced to commit murder. The murderers did so willingly.
There should have been witnesses too. It would have been easy enough for a whole squad to collaborate on letting the “Untermenschen” “go loose” in that case, and for said “Untermenschen” even to be able to persuade them to do so.
I say still implausible.
No, I think these were euphemized records. The punishment would have been for “conduct unbecoming a soldier” or some such.
“And then that was it to the war. WWII is still going on, as long as this goes on.”
Yes, I agree. It is interesting that we haven’t been barraged over the years with stories of former guards of the Japanese POW camps that brutalized and killed many American and Allied POWs. I assume that many of the guards committed suicide just before we liberated the camps, and I heard stories many years ago (from uncles and friends’ fathers) that we killed some of them on the spot in retribution for their inhumane and murderous behavior. I wonder how many of the guards we simply forgave and forgot?
Here is a link to a detailed compendium of the charges, verdicts, and sentences handed down at Yokohama to 150 Japanese civilians and military personnel connected to the operation of various POW camps in Japan.
http://wcsc.berkeley.edu/wp-content/uploads/Japan/Yokohama/Reviews/PT-yokohama-index.htm
"German officials have reportedly been told to cover up crimes committed by migrants in order to avoid spreading panic among the population. And no arrests have been made in Cologne. Several German government officials appear anxious to make sure migrants do not receive any of the blame. Facebook, Google and Twitter are working with German authorities to control speech as angry citizens react to the chaos caused by refugees. The deal with social-media giants comes as Germans fume over 100 sexual assaults and robberies perpetrated by migrants last Friday in Cologne.
Merkel gave a speech Dec. 30 warning Germans to shun “those with coldness, or even hate in their hearts, and who claim the right to be called German for themselves alone and seek to marginalize others,” Deutsche Welle reported.
http://www.wnd.com/2016/01/schlafly-rape-jihad-shows-germany-is-no-longer-german/ "
Sexual violence in Germany has skyrocketed since Angela Merkel allowed more than one million mostly male migrants from Africa, Asia and the Middle East into the country. The crimes are being downplayed by the authorities, apparently to avoid fueling anti-immigration sentiments.
"The moment they [male migrants] see a young woman wearing a skirt or any type of loose clothing, they believe they have a free pass." — Restaurant owner at a mall in Kiel.
"Every police officer knows he has to meet a particular political expectation. It is better to keep quiet [about migrant crime] because you cannot go wrong." — Rainer Wendt, head of the German police union.
Police are warning about a potential breakdown of public order this summer, when women who are lightly dressed are confronted by young male migrants.
Jakob Augstein, an influential columnist for the magazine Der Spiegel, says that Germans worried about migrant crimes are motivated by racism. His views shed light on the worldview of German multiculturalism: Migrants who assault German women and children are simply rebelling against German power structures. Germans who criticize such assaults are racists.
Police in Cologne received more than 1,000 complaints from women, including 454 reports of sexual assaults, related to New Year's Eve. Police in Hamburg received complaints from 351 women, including 218 reports of sexual assault that took place on the same evening.
Maybe the Japanese sense of honor (even misplaced honor) was acute enough that nobody stuck around who was an important player on the Japanese side and did not wish to change positions when the emperor did.
Anyhow, if we must have such a policy, this also should be called a war until the last man falls in it. Calling it crimes is dangerous; it presumes some “whole world civilization of peace.” The bible tells us where that notion heads.
This ought to count as a war, though when we will wake up and realize that war doesn’t have to comply with Geneva standards any more than street fighting has to comply with Marquis of Queensbury... I don’t know.
KILL EVERYONE.
They are definitely guilty.
???? Read “the good old days” in their own words they relate how anyone could be transferred without repercussion. Hand written letters.
So when will the war end, achtung? Should we kill the sons of the bastages who escaped long enough to go to God the normal way? Their sons?
Yes, an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.
Trying to be fair requires one to consider the facts of this case in detail.
In general it is my understanding that it was not a bullet to the head for having issues with being a camp guard. I am not sure about this (it has been some years since i read about this)having issues with that duty could ask to be transferred from the Totenkopfbande to a Waffen SS combat unit. As the Waffen SS was big on rough and ready, lacking tactical finesse with resulting high casualties, for a fellow who just wanted to survive the war it was not that nice an alternative
That said, if while a guard he refused an order, he would be disciplined for this, and that might include being executed for refusing to obey an order. The Germans did execute a lot of soldiers for failure to follow orders.
Also It must be remembered that their system was different that the US army: In the US Army you are told you cannot obey an illegal order: how exactly you go about this is left up in the air. In the Germans army you were allowed to question the legality of an order. However, if your commanding officer said “On my authority you are to do this” it meant that the moral responsibility for the action was transferred to him. Hence at that point you had to obey the order, regardless of your personal feeling on it. You may object but this was their legal system. it did allow a lot of folks to go along with crimes though, as they could argue they were simply obeying orders and not morally culpable.
So what is the moral culpability of a 20 year old soldier who was on the outer perimeter of the camp? Well if he was a guard in 1942 he was a volunteer in the SS, drafting did not start until 1943. So he was a volunteer in an organization that was criminal, by the Nuremburg tribunal. He could have gotten out of it by offering to go to the front lines, but such action was very dangerous. A lot of young men who idealistically that join organizations find that it is not such great thing and then just seek to survive, I find that hard to fault.
On the other hand, It seems he knew what was going on. He felt guilt about it. he has lived a long life. It is hard to feel sorry for him if he is somehow punished, even up to death (which will not be imposed).
On the other hand, once again, at this late date it seems a little odd. In the late 1940s significant numbers of high level NAZIs were let go with a slap on the wrist. Guys who were actually at the Wannsee conference and folks who were in the role of defining the policies of the NAZI party. Folks with much more culpability who were in their 30s and 40s at the time served in the west german government into the 1970s. To have let them go with a slap on the wrist or even less, and at this late date go after a 20 year old, who was a minor cog in the system seems.....very hypocritical.
If you are going to do that, then by rights you should also go after all the members of 506 PIR (band of brothers fame) that landed on D-day. That particular regiment was well documented for several cases of executing prisoners in cold blood in Normandy. The details are in the books “Band of Brothers and Currahee!, there really is no doubt about that, they are by their own words implicated. Does anyone think that is right to go these soldiers at this late date?
How about the GPU, NKVD and various Stalinist members who were involved in all the crimes such as the Kaytan forest massacres, show trials of the 1930s? there has never been any punishment. Once again the crimes of the communist part were epic, but a very much doubt a 20 year old kid caught up in one of these organizations has much ability to stop any of their crimes.
Back to the 94 year old guy: Not saying he does not have some guilt. But it would take the wisdom of Solomon to know ho to be fair at this late date. Not that I will shed a tear for him if he is punished, but it might be wiser that this date to leave it to a higher power, as we are told to leave vengeance to the Lord in the good book. Ultimately I hope he is sorry and hopefully get gets forgiveness. If he is not, then he is facing a more severe punishment that any of Human agency is possible of imposing.
There should be families talking about it, how Uncle Hans or Aunt Gertrude did thus and such.
I’d be tempted to write a letter like that, if it would whitewash some reputations. Oh no it wasn’t me, it was that monster across the street.
Maybe I wasn’t clear about this.
KILL EVERYONE.
NO EXCEPTIONS.
Fair enough. Time to move on.
"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee" -- Jesus, Matthew 5:29.
I'm just following the Bible and helping others to do the same!
eeee... He should be punished, the apology thing is just his last hour apology to God and less so to humanity, he’s looking at judgement from Above and is a bit scared. No excuses for him, but I don’t blame every rank and file Nazi anymore than every rank and file Soviet or even Khmer Rouge, anymore than I hold some thing against every Southern Confederate. Most Confederates were great people, rank and file. In fact, if the South won the Civil War (war between the States) there would be no slavery today, that was going to end no matter who won the war. Now if the NAZIs won, who were Socialists, that would have been a big problem. But most rank and file didn’t know all the bad stuff going on, they probably knew some mass murdering was going on but not at the levels that was later found. Most were just patriots and many anti-communists. Now if you were part of a camp mass-murdering Jews then you must be executed for that. It is worse than a “crime”. But I don’t blame every Nazi. Sorry. I guess I will have to apologize, too. So, sorry for saying not all Nazis were bad. Many were. Those who did the murders need to die for their deeds. But let’s not act like everyone needs to die. Anyway, you can only execute so many and you start to run out of bullets. You, yourself, might turn into a Nazi after too many bullets. Just shoot the guy, but don’t make your entire day just about that.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.