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To: BroJoeK; DiogenesLamp
The United States went to war in 1861 to defeat the military power that threatened it, assaulted it and declared war on it.

And you actually believe that crap?? "Military power"?? HA! Man, what a bizarre delusion. Nice propaganda.

Lincoln-the-Fascist coerced by bloody force those whose FREE WILL and personal/State sovereignty were violated. He also violated the rights of many young men in the North of whom did not want to be drafted just to bleed and die for Lincoln's puppetmeister Yankee Elites.

DL had it exactly right.

602 posted on 07/15/2016 9:38:47 AM PDT by HangUpNow
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To: HangUpNow; rustbucket; DiogenesLamp; central_va
Brojoke and his cohorts do not want to admit the truth.

Following secession and up and until two weeks after Lincoln took office, a large part of the northern press contended that the States of the South had a full right to secede if the people desired to withdraw from the Union, and it was common to see in the northern press the words, “Erring sisters go in peace.”

Horace Greeley’s paper had said the following,

”If seven or eight contiguous States shall present themselves authentically at Washington, saying: ‘We hate the Federal Union; we have withdrawn from it;we will give you the choice between acquiescing in our secession and arranging amicably all incidental questions on the one hand, and attempting to subdue us on the other,’ we could not stand up for coercion, for subjugation, for we do not think it would be just. We hold the right of self-government even when invoked in behalf of those who deny it to others. “

'This conservative view of the question which Mr. Greeley gave to the world with such emphasis, and in which he expressed his opinion of the principle involved, had been reiterated for days, weeks and months after the election of Mr.Lincoln, and until after most of the Southern States had seceded.

'They continued until after the people of the South had adopted a constitution, and organized their new Confederate Government; after they had raised and equipped an army, appointed ambassadors to foreign courts, and convened a congress; after they had taken possession of three fourths of the arsenals and forts within their territory,and enrolled her as one of the nations of the earth.

After all this, Mr. Greeley’spaper continued to endorse the action of all southern people as fully as it was possible for language to enable it to do so. Mr. Greeley had said:

“Whenever it shall be clear that the great body of southern people have become conclusively alienated from the Union, and anxious to escape from it, we will do our best to forward their views. “

The most prominent men and able editors of Republican papers all over the North had earnestly and ably supported Mr.Greeley in his views.

In addition to all this, the commander of the Federal army, General Winfield Scott, was very emphatic in endorsing the views of the New York Tribune and other papers, to the effect that secession was the proper course for the southern people to pursue, and his oft repeated expression, “Wayward sisters, part in peace,” seemed to meet the full approval of the great body of the people of the North.

This rapidly changed.

 3/18/1861      It took only a week for Northern newspapers to understand the meaning of the low Confederate Tariff announced the week earlier in Montgomery. 

The Boston Transcript wrote,

“It does not require extraordinary sagacity to perceive that trade is perhaps the controlling motive operating to prevent the return of the seceding States to the Union.

“Alleged grievances in regard to slavery were originally the causes for the separation of the cotton States; but it is apparent that the people of the principal seceding states are now for commercial independence. They dream that the centers of traffic can be changed from Northern to Southern ports.

“The merchants of New Orleans, Charleston, and Savannah are possessed with the idea that New York, Boston, and Philadelphia may be shorn, in the future, of their mercantile greatness, by a revenue system verging upon free trade.

“If the Southern Confederation is allowed to carry out a policy by which only a nominal duty is laid upon imports, no doubt the business of the chief Northern cities will be seriously injured thereby…

“The difference is so great between the tariff of the Union and that of the Confederated States, that the entire Northwest must find it to their advantage to purchase their imported goods at New Orleans rather than at New York.In addition to this, the manufacturing interest of the country will suffer from the increased importations resulting from low duties.“

“The government would be false to its obligations if this state of things were not provided against.”

The leaders in the South knew that there would only be two choices open to the federal government politicians who had always maintained a permanent monopoly on tax revenues.Either they would meet the South’s low tax rates and compete in a peacefulfree-market which would mean a drastic cut in government revenue, power and special interest benefits.

Or they would suffer financial losses, corporate and national bankruptcy.  Not a likely scenario.

Or they would trump up some fake reasons to go to war and attempt to destroy the competitor.

608 posted on 07/15/2016 2:07:56 PM PDT by PeaRidge
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To: HangUpNow; rockrr; x
HangUpNow: "And you actually believe that crap??
"Military power"??
HA! Man, what a bizarre delusion.
Nice propaganda."

Sorry, but the "delusions" are all yours.
The fact is, you don't know your own history, and that's what makes your own posts so "bizarre".

In early 1861, the United States Army totaled around 17,000 men, most scattered in small forts out west.
If you wished to compare those to today, the 1860 population was roughly 30 million, today's about 300 million, meaning ten times more.
So 17,000 in 1861 equates to 170,000 today, which is 1/3 of today's actual deeply depleted strength and it's even one third less than the 270,000 of pre-wwii 1940.
In other words, the US in 1861 was less prepared for war than we were in 1940!

By sharp contrast, one of the Confederacy's first acts, in March 1861 even before Lincoln's inauguration, was to call up 100,000 men, a call young Southerners eagerly responded to.
At that same time, Jefferson Davis ordered preparations for a military assault on Fort Sumter, such that by April 12, Confederates had gathered up 5,000 men on 4,000 guns and mortars to assault 85 Union troops with 21 guns in the fort.
Of course, Confederates were short of ammo, but still had enough to do the job of forcing Major Anderson's surrender.

So, by April 12, 1861 the Confederate army outnumbered the entire Union army nearly six to one, and at Fort Sumter nearly sixty to one.

HangUpNow: "Lincoln-the-Fascist coerced by bloody force those whose FREE WILL and personal/State sovereignty were violated."

Total rubbish, garbage talk of the worst kind.
In fact, the Confederacy was left totally free to do whatever it wanted, until it started and declared war on the United States.

HangUpNow: "He also violated the rights of many young men in the North of whom did not want to be drafted just to bleed and die for Lincoln's puppetmeister Yankee Elites."

In fact, from the beginning, state militias were drafted in every US war, and President Madison first proposed a national draft for the War of 1812, which Congress then did not think necessary.

But Congress did think a national draft necessary for the Civil War, and so authorized it.

Nothing unconstitutional, illegal or "violating" about a draft in wartime.

665 posted on 07/17/2016 3:49:04 PM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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