Why, bless your little old heart! You're so sweet! (As we say down here in the Bible Belt.)
I don’t give a rat’s excrement about Palestine. That’s between you and them.
First of all, I note that the use of "potty language" is forbidden on the Religion Forum, and you have in your alleged "conservatism" chosen to ignore that. Second, I note that you're a "chrstian" with apparently no use or feeling for the Holy Land. If "palestine" isn't your holy land, then what is? Rome? Ireland? Assyria? Armenia? Ethiopia? Don't tell me it's America? You mean this is where all that stuff happened??? Wow, and I wasted time and money over eighteen years ago to actually visit Israel on my own, with no tour group, just so I could visit the Holy City and the graves of the Patriarchs and King David. So, where in the good ol' USA are these "ancient chrstians" buried, hmmm???
I might ask what ‘biblical license’ does Israel have to support jihadis in Syria and align itself with jihadi powers like Turkey and Saudi-Arabia?
Hm. The last I heard, the Israelis were fighting ISIL. Just what grounds do you have to accuse them of "supporting jihadists" other than the usual Buchananite knee-jerk attitude that "you can't trust the Jews?" And while I'm not fan of Turkey, that doesn't change the fact that their Greek and (especially) Armenian opponents have been Reds for decades. Shoot, the Armenian organizations endorsed Bernie Sanders for President according to an article posted here on FR!!!
What patriotic Conservatives in any country should resent is the influence your ilk
And just what ilk would that be? Are you referring to my status as an Anglo-Saxon? A rural Southerner? A redneck? A Biblical literalist? A Noachide? Or maybe all of the above?
tries to peddle to drag other nations in YOUR squabbles.
You mean like every single ethnic lobby in the country, including those chrstian Armenians, Greeks, Copts, and the good old Ancient Order of Hibernians supporting the Communist Sinn Fein?
Especially American blood and treasure are cheap when it’s about wars that are not serving vital American interests.
It seems to me that it is in America's vital interests to not provoke the wrath of the One True G-d and wind up destroyed, but perhaps being a blood-and-soil pagan you have a different perspective.
Also typical to exploit the Christian faith to support ‘Jewish’ goals... nothing new. For starters not all Conservatives are Evangelicals
Oh, I know all about that. I found that out good and proper almost four decades ago when I joined the John Birch Society. Let me guess . . . you're a member, right? So, are they teaching that John Nelson Darby came up with "dispensationalism" on the orders of the "Illuminati" now?
who think that Israel is some godly state.
Let's be very clear about one thing: I do not think that the current secular state founded in 5717 (that's dating from the "mythical" creation us stupid rednecks believe in) is G-dly in any degree. I don't give a flying feather about Israeli "democracy" vs. big, bad moslem "theocracy." The actual messianic state of Israel will be a Torah Theocracy with a King, a Great Sanhedrion (and lesser ones in cities throughout the land) and a fully functional Temple with the ancient Divinely-mandated sacrificial system restored to full operation. And by the way, it is the truly G-dly Israel that will clear out all false religions from the Holy Land, whereas the current secular state not only allows them to flourish there, but actually brags about it, just as it does its "gay rights!!!"
The traditional interpration
The chrstian interpretation is not traditional. It is a radical innovation just as inorganic with the past as the so-called Protestant "revolt" would be fifteen centuries later. As a matter of fact, all the Protestants did was to use the ancient churches' anti-Torah arguments against them--which they fully deserved, measure-for-measure.
of the Old Testament being surplanted by the New Testament and Christian Gospel
The old supplanted by something "new?" My, my. That doesn't sound very "conservative." In fact, it sounds downright liberal. Once one starts supplanting the old with the new, where does one stop? Pretty soon the gospel gets supplanted by islam, which gets supplanted by sikhism, which gets supplanted by mormonism, etc., etc., etc. 'Im ken, 'ein ladavar sof (if that were so, there would be no end to the matter).
has been effectively pushed aside in mainstream Evangelical circles.
Yes, because traditional non-Evangelical Protestant chrstianity is nothing but one big knot of illogic and hypocrisy. You say chrstians are supposed to read the Hebrew Bible and then see it as some sort of hazy "shadow" of Medieval Europe? They're supposed to read a Bible in which the only commandments, rituals, and holidays are Jewish and then supplant them with ones that aren't even found in the "new testament" (much less the Bible!) which developed over centuries by the adaptation of pagan feasts on a pagan Roman calendar? That's--well, not being one to engage in potty language on the religion forum--that's nonsense. Moses means Moses and not J*sus. David means David and not Constantine. Solomon means Solomon and not Charlemagne. We Bible-thumping rednecks don't want your post-Biblical religion, its post-Biblical history, its post-Biblical ritual or ceremonial. There's already a ritual and ceremonial and history and holidays, and they may be read in black-and-white in the Torah, which (unlike the "new testament") was actually written by G-d before the Creation of the world and then dictated to Moses letter-by-letter. There isn't another religion or "sacred text" in the world about which that can be said.
But the traditional Christian notion of the Jews not being quite on God’s side is still very much alive worldwide.
Oh, believe me, unlike naive American-style Fundamentalist Protestants who see Judaism and "true chrstianity" as some shattered whole in need of being glued back together, I am quite aware of that fact. Have you ever considered that "traditional chrstian notions" just might be mistaken? At any rate, what do American Fundamentalists owe to "traditional chrstians" like Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Miaphysites, and Nestorians? Their so-called "brethren" look down on them, make fun of them, refuse to get involved in the culture wars, and engage in the same liberal ethnic bloc politics that Jews do. Furthermore the traditional churches have the same cruel twisted stereotype of American Fundamentalists that liberals and atheists do, as I found out in my brief sojourn in the Catholic Church (this was after my brief sojourn in the Birch Society). Not only do "traditional chrstians" refuse to take part in the culture wars, they are actively on the other side when it comes to issues important to Fundamentalists. "Traditional chrstians" are rabid evolutionists and higher critics, and not only that, but historically have adopted those positions for the sole purpose of being different from the Fundamentalists they so hate, look down on, and despise. No, American Fundamentalists have borne all their burdens ALONE, supported neither by "traditional chrstians" nor by Jews nor by their so-called fellow Fundamentalist Protestants in the Black churches. They have learned what you really are, what you think of them, and that they don't need you. So much for your "traditional chrstian view," Pal.
Just as traditional Judaism has a less than positive view of Christians. People versed in history know this.
Which includes me.
In any case I don’t base my criticism on religion or ethnicity.. that is your spin.
Sure you don't. That's why you've been preaching about how the gospel "supplants" (G-d forbid!) the Holy Torah. Because you don't make your arguments on religious grounds. And as for ethnic arguments, I have never in my life met a "conservative" critic of Jewish nationalism who didn't advocate the exact same nationalism for themselves. They merely resented the fact that it was the Jews G-d chose and not them. This applies to you as well, I suppose?
I just am not turning a blind eye to machinations to force down an agenda down the throats of gullible gentiles. I voiced the same criticism to the machinations of the Saudi lobbying in the US. Just as nefarious.
So what then? You believe every country should have its own religion and its own "gxd," so troubling issues like an objective external Chosen People and Holy Land won't be getting in the way? There's a word for that, you know . . . idolatry. (And btw, I bet back in the day you would have gladly sacrificed thousands of American lives for Rhodesia or South Africa or Franco or Nationalist China. After all, they are your "racial kindred," are they not (though I'm still trying to figure out where China fits in)? Oh, that is SO much more important that the country where the events of the Bible take place--isn't it?
Go back to reading your Willis Carto now. You've exposed yourself. At least you were honest.
First of all you might want to calm down. Foam at the mouth is never good.
The word I used to describe my lack of interest in the Palestinian cause is only mild ‘potty’ language... pardon that. I wasn’t even aware that this thread is in the religion section - thought it’s abou politics. The subject of the article is also political and not so much religious.
I am not in the slightest interested in religious arguments.
You started this with referencing the ‘Hebrew Bible’.
Before that I was talking about the earthly matters of power, money and politics. You brought in the Bible. We can leave it out again.
I assumed you to be Jewish. Ok you are apparently an ardent Christian Zionist. Fair enough.
Yes I am against any national or religious minority trying to yield influence over politics of a country they are not the majority of. Especially when serving foreign interests.
Individuals of any group should participate in politics - but don’t try to usurp power and cram down a foreign agenda down the majority’s throat.
As for your disdain for Christian Armenians and Greeks... that’s torally in line with traditional Jewish hatred for Armenians as ‘Amalekites’ and a grudge against ‘Hellenes’ and ‘Byzantines’ (see Jewish massacres of heathen Greeks during ‘Kitos war’). Also see the role of Jews and Sabbatean crypto-Jews in the genocide of Armenians during the Ottoman Empire.
Unsurprisingly certain Jews are at the forefront in denying the Armenian genocide and cover their buddies the Turks.
As for ‘Reds’... you do know that tgere is no other ethnic group more involced in Communism than the Jews, right? Independent Armenia was defeated and conwuered by the Bolsheviks (where famously Jews were doninant) working hand in hand with the Turkish Nationaliat army (also supported by Jews).
The nationalist Armenians fought for independence from Turkish and Soviet tyranny. To paint Armenians as ‘screaming Reds’ and ignoring the role of Jews in Communism shows that you need to polish your historical knowledge.