[Steve_Seattle]

According to an article in Wikipedia (to which I do not give COMPLETE credibility), there are about 11.5 million illegals in this country. For various reasons, I think that figure is probably understated by several million. (One reason is that many "powers that be" have reason to understate the figure.)

If there are 15 million illegals, many of whom have been here for decades, have jobs, have driver's licenses, and other forms of ID, I think it is reasonable to assume that 10% or more of them vote in presidential elections. (In just the last three years, California alone has issued driver's licenses to more than 800,000 illegals.)

Not only are ID requirements for voting often very lax, we have every reason to think that authorities in many jurisdictions turn a blind eye to illegal voting, or even encourage it. Democrats almost ALWAYS fight any attempt to require ID for purposes of voting.

Then, as you say, there is the large number of non-illegal non-citizens, and if 5-15% of those people vote, the number of illegal votes might jump to 2-3 million, in the range that Trump us claiming.

At any rate, I am absolutely convinced that the number of illegals who vote is at a minimum several hundred thousand, far above the claims of Trump's critics, who often suggest that almost no illegals ever vote.

[spintreebob]

I personally have known thousands of illegals. How many have you known. I’ve registered naturalized citizens to vote after Spanish mass. I’ve gone door to door in immigrant areas and registered people to vote. What is your experience?

I don’t know a single illegal who has even thought of voting. They put yard signs up for my candidates. But never would consider voting.

I have known green card holders who heard the accusations of illegals voting and (being less educated) assumed that because there was so much effort against illegals, that they as green card holders could register and vote. We see this on line also. The mis-guided noise about illegals communicates that if you are legal, you can vote.

Thus, in my voter registration efforts, I’ve had to stop 2 or 3 green card holders from trying to register. Actually, other green card holders present corrected them before I did.

I also have many years of experience observing and fighting vote fraud, and exchanging stories with others who have first hand experience on both sides of vote fraud. How much first hand experience do you have?

As far as the number of illegals, it depends on the definition of illegal. I’ve sat beside many IT workers who are working on a student visa, a tourist visa. They are legally in the US; but cannot work legally. Are they illegals? Many people are in the process of switching visa type, or are in the famous line patiently waiting. Are they illegal. Eg my wife entered illegally. We married. She applied for automatic amnesty as my wife. The amnesty is almost always guaranteed. She was as good as legal before she officially got the green card.

The entire topic is plagued by complexity, and by mis-use of words, and mis-use of statistics, and fake facts, and by ignorance of reality.