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To: mangonc2; Kaslin; aquila48; TexasGator; Agamemnon; Pirate Ragnar
mangonc2: "It seems impossible based on your everyday experiences, but that’s because your everyday experience does not encompass processes that span millions or billions of years."

Correct. Remember first, we're talking about Abiogenesis here, not Darwin's basic evolution theory.
Abiogenesis is just one hypothesis covering origin of life and includes many ideas, some more strongly confirmed than others.
And a key point to grasp about Abiogenesis is that under the right conditions, some chemical reactions become not improbable, but inevitable.
So scientific work in this area includes identifying both the necessary conditions and the chemical responses.
Where chemistry can be shown to "complexify" there scientists think may lie a path from chemistry to biology.

But it's all still hypothesis, some weakly confirmed theory and very little observed facts.
That's how science works.

327 posted on 06/19/2017 10:22:16 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: BroJoeK; mangonc2; Kaslin; aquila48; TexasGator; Agamemnon; Pirate Ragnar
And a key point to grasp about Abiogenesis is that under the right conditions, some chemical reactions become not improbable, but inevitable.

Can you provide an example of an "inevitable reaction" that results in an Abiogeneiss event?

Where chemistry can be shown to "complexify" there scientists think may lie a path from chemistry to biology.

Got any particular "scientists" you can point to who speak in terms of "complexifying," or did you just pull this term our of your ass?

I am 35-year career scientist: a biologist, a chemist, and a biochemist with graduate and undergraduate degrees and I can't think of one scientist among the many I know in life sciences who would recognize your terminology or have any idea what you are talking about.

FReegards!

 photo million-vet-march.jpg

345 posted on 06/19/2017 1:30:04 PM PDT by Agamemnon (Darwinism is the glue that holds liberalism together)
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To: BroJoeK
With DNA you have information in a symbolic representation and a reading frame code. But beyond this, a formalization of semantic closure would need to be in place prior to the first cell. This cannot just happen by accident. We know DNA has the following

1. Functional Information
2. Encoder
3. Error Correction
4. Decoder

DNA contains multi-layered information and metadata (information about how to use the information in the context of the related data) and is a more efficient storage medium than anything we’ve created. So here you have instructional data that must be translated to perform specific functions at specific times (a system that describes itself and interprets its description).

Genes are a symbolic medium - and the semantic closure is the correlation that constrains and conveys what the genes represent. For example, codons only represent amino acids if you have the system in place to interpret the functional relationship of the medium (aaRS).

Consider the data input for a CAD model that is then created (physically expressed) with a 3D printer or rapid prototype machine. Now appreciate the information transfer from an idea, to the symbolic medium of software, to the specific design – the translations that must occur – and the system(s) that must already be in place to interpret the functional relationships with the proper correlation and constraints.

This would be like blind chance creating a new language with an illiterate 'nature' already having the ability to understand (although it is mindless). Keep in mind, this is a language that codes precise plans in a very specific order necessary to manifest this amazing thing we call life.

It's at this point many will state that evolution has nothing to do with abiogenesis. But here's the rub - if initial life had purpose and reason - why would all further iterations of life just be genetic mistakes that lived without reason leading to our human consciousness?

We are left with the question, "Does human consciousness and conscience ultimately come from mindlessness?" and the philosophical ramifications of our response - the worldview that follows...

349 posted on 06/19/2017 7:06:19 PM PDT by Heartlander (Prediction: Increasingly, logic will be seen as a covert form of theism. - Denyse O'Leary)
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To: BroJoeK; Agamemnon

>>Where chemistry can be shown to “complexify”

You mean moving against entropy in the context of increasing one system’s complexity at the expense of another?


353 posted on 06/20/2017 8:22:10 AM PDT by HLPhat (It takes a Republic TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS - not a populist Tyranny of the Majority)
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