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To: daniel1212
(((sigh)))

Canon 212

And tagline.

169 posted on 06/14/2018 6:51:01 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (The severed hand cannot heal the Body.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
(((sigh))) Canon 212 And tagline.

(((sigh))) You have also tried this before, but the only thing in Canon 212 that you can try to invoke in defense of public dissent is ,

§3. According to the knowledge, competence, and prestige which they possess, they have the right and even at times the duty to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church and to make their opinion known to the rest of the Christian faithful, without prejudice to the integrity of faith and morals, with reverence toward their pastors, and attentive to common advantage and the dignity of persons.

I presume you consider yourself and cohorts to have the required knowledge, competence, and prestige, but invoking this shows how subject to interpretation Catholic teaching can be - the very thing RCs promote the magisterium as being the answer to.

You posted this in response to a list of papal teaching and the prohibition of public contradiction , and under the pretext of making "their opinion known to the rest of the Christian faithful" and having a "just and reasonable cause" RCs take it upon themselves to engage with those Rome (doctrinally) defines as "heretics," and publicly dissent from obedience to the pope, even with encyclicals, and often speak contrary to showing "reverence toward their pastors, and "the dignity of persons."

You can argue that you do not agree with those who disparage your pope and prelates and "Christian faithful," but i do not see you censuring such, while you dismiss as excoms those whom Rome manifestly affirms as members those who conservative "true" Catholics reject.

And besides the modern contradiction with past RC teaching (below), I am not impressed with Canon 1212 or your interpretation of it as sanctioning even your debates. At best Canon 1212 is too broad and ambiguous to do so, and you are not simply making your opinions known to the "Christian faithful" - which would to be "faithful" as per Rome would mean Catholics as per canon 831 which forbids writing in media which are accustomed to attack openly the Catholic religion, as we do here - but are engaging in debate with "heretics" as per heretical Rome, as well as non-Christians.

All in all, what we have are RCs not following leadership with its current application/interpretation/clarification of historical RC teaching as docile sheep, but setting themselves up as judges of what is valid Catholic teaching based upon their interpretation of what that is, and interpreting modern teaching as sanctioning this.

For paradoxically, it is often traditional RCs who oppose modern changes who invoke canon 212 as supporting their public protests, yet canon 212 is a modernist adaptation to free speech values, without which then they would not be able to invoke canon law as supporting their public protests and debates, based upon their interpretation of it.

For in the past, RC were enjoined,

We furthermore forbid any lay person to engage in dispute, either private or public, concerning the Catholic Faith. Whosoever shall act contrary to this decree, let him be bound in the fetters of excommunication. — Pope Alexander IV (1254-1261) in “Sextus Decretalium”, Lib. V, c. ii: http://oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Religious_Discussions

Commenting on this, the Catholic Encyclopedia states, in part,

This law, like all penal laws, must be very narrowly construed. The terms Catholic Faith and dispute have a technical signification. The former term refers to questions purely theological; the latter to disputations more or less formal, and engrossing the attention of the public.... ..but when there is a question of dogmatic or moral theology, every intelligent layman will concede the propriety of leaving the exposition and defense of it to the clergy. But the clergy are not free to engage in public disputes on religion without due authorization...That this legislation is still in force appears from the letter addressed to the bishops of Italy by Cardinal Rampolla in the name of the Cong. for Ecclesiastical Affairs (27 Jan., 1902) - www.newadvent.org/cathen/05034a.htm

Can. 831 §1 Unless there is a just and reasonable cause, no member of Christ's faithful may write in newspapers, pamphlets or periodicals which clearly are accustomed to attack the catholic religion or good morals. Clerics and members of religious institutes may write in them only with the permission of the local Ordinary. - http://www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG0017/_P2P.HTM

“the Church forbids the faithful to communicate with those unbelievers who have forsaken the faith they once received, either by corrupting the faith, as heretics, or by entirely renouncing the faith, as apostates, because the Church pronounces sentence of excommunication on both.” St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica; http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3010.htm

And currently,

Can. 831 §1 Unless there is a just and reasonable cause, no member of Christ's faithful may write in newspapers, pamphlets or periodicals which clearly are accustomed to attack the catholic religion or good morals. Clerics and members of religious institutes may write in them only with the permission of the local Ordinary. - http://www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG0017/_P2P.HTM

172 posted on 06/16/2018 2:12:44 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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