Posted on 09/01/2019 9:02:40 AM PDT by CondoleezzaProtege
The Visigoths who sacked Rome settled down in Italy. Modern day Italians are descendents of both the Visigoths and their victims.
Modern-day Germans are most likely not descendents of the Visigoths who went to Spain and Italy.
That reminds me of the joke of a Mexican guy going to Spain and saying “your ancestors killed my ancestors”
and the Spanish guy saying “what are you talking about? My ancestors stayed right here — YOUR ancestors were the conquistadors as well as their victims”
In 1945 the situation was mixed-up:
What is now western Poland was “Polish” from the 9th to the 12th century but after that was Czech, Prussian, Saxon, Austrian, German etc. etc. - it was mixed up with many nations. Also many people who were by blood one “nation” identified with another nation — this especially happened after Bismarck’s kulturkampf persecution of Catholics when Catholic Germans in “Poland” felt more akin to their Polish brethren and got polonized.
The part of Poland that was taken by the USSR was also mixed up - Poles, Ruthenians, Ukrainians, Germans, Jews, Armenians, Tatars and smaller groups like Boykos, Lemkos, etc
Stalin created a mono-ethnic, mono-lingual state of Poland by creating a defensible western border (the Oder-Neisse) and a defensable eastern border - the Bug and the Bialowieza forests.
Technically the land “belongs” to all 4 or 5 nationalities - that includes the Jews who were murdered by the Nazis.
nation, language, culture, religion, race etc. were all very very mized.
The USSR kept that land by force and today it is Belarussian, lithuanian and Ukrainian and Russian.
As a non-Pole by blood but a Polish citizen by marriage and by choice here’s my impartial take on each of these
1. the Ukrainian part - Poles mourn the loss of Lwow which was a very Polish city. Until 1945 it was nearly 70% Polish and it was a center of Polish culture, language and arts throughout the 17th to 19th centuries. But it was a Polish island in a “Ukrainian” sea - surrounded by communities who identified themselves as “Ukrainian”.
This was similar to Szekelyland in Romania (Magyar island surrounded by Romanians) or Wroclaw/Breslau in Poland.
It is a historical tragedy but since the Ukrainians now allow visits and maintain the city, it is, like Wroclaw
2. Belarussian - this part was always Belarussian even in the small towns and cities. Actually I’m wrong - the second largest ethnic group were Jews. Pinsk was nearly completely a Jewish city and Minsk was 60% Jewish. These were all murdered by the Germans.
Poland and Belarus have good relations and together manage the beautiful wildlife reserve of Bialowieza
3. Lithuania - again, Vilnius/Wilno was a flash-point - a Polish city but this time not quite an island in a Lithuanian sea. The Lithuanians still felt that Vilnius was THEIR city due to its long history of being Lithuania - what is interesting is that Poles and Lithuanians are heavily mixed; naturaly after being united in one country for 400 years. Pilsudski for instance was a Polonized Lithuanian and the greatest Polish poet Mickiewicz is acknowledged by both countries - Mickiewicz’s great POLISH epic starts with “Lithuania, my fatherland, you are like health to me” and he would have been puzzled by the split of nations.
4. Russia - here Kaliningrad was Koenigsburg. It was a German city for 800 years. Deep in German culture, the city of Kant. But it was destroyed during the war and is now a post-Soviet concrete non-descript town. Sad but that’s the way
I see the apology as a courtesy. No reparations more from Germany.
The graciousness in which the Germans acknowledge the evils their grandfathers did make them far more appreciated.
No Visigoths stayed home?
No. The Visigoths were a branch of the Tervingi who themselves migrated to East-Central Europe. The Visigoths wandered west.
Anniversary Bump.
WOW thank you.
Go to hell, POS.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.