Posted on 10/14/2020 2:14:28 PM PDT by Eleutheria5
Amid ongoing conflict between Azerbaijan and Armenia, Armenian Jews urge Israel to end weapons sales to Azerbaijan.
(Excerpt) Read more at israelnationalnews.com ...
Not exactly formal allies, but probably one of the closest relationships Israel has with a Muslim country (including Jordan, for which Israel is an unofficial military backer of last resort). There was talk of an Israeli air base there in 2012.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerbaijan%E2%80%93Israel_relations
This is not a relationship Israel will give up over Nagorno-Karabakh. From the standpoint of national interest/survival, Israel needs Armenia like a fish needs a bicycle. Whereas Azerbaijan could end up hosting Israeli airplanes for a strike on Iran. No question there as to which relationship is more important.
Armenia hasn’t exactly been friendly to Israel in the United Nations. Quite the contrary. Maybe they’re more of an ally than Azerbaijan? I don’t see that. If they’re a “natural ally”, they can be more overt about it.
That does not mean that Israel should be selling them weapons to kill Armenians in Nagorno-Karabakh or anywhere. If Israel doesn’t want to cross Azerbaijan, it can stay neutral. That way there is at least a potential for a future friendship with Armenia, which is a natural ally of Israel, even though for the moment it might be openly hostile. Other natural allies are the nascent state of Greater Kurdistan, India, the nascent states of Coptic Christians, Syrian Christians, and Alawites. I realize that Armenians tend to be anti-Semitic from my own experiences, but so do Muslims. For all I know, so do Yazidis. It does not justify helping Azerbaijanis to slaughter Armenians, which then deepens their hostility.
Israel does have a purpose in the Middle East beyond its own survival. And towards that purpose it should not involve itself in the elimination of Armenians from Nagorno-Karabakh. It should be the go-to country for protecting other Eastern minorities, or at minimum not collaborate in their destruction.
[That does not mean that Israel should be selling them weapons to kill Armenians in Nagorno-Karabakh or anywhere. If Israel doesn’t want to cross Azerbaijan, it can stay neutral. ]
So Armenians are an existential threat to Israel because they live in Nagorno-Karabakh and the Azers want them gone, and also they don’t like us much. I’m sorry, but that’s carrying realpolitic to far. The Azers will help against Iran because they also are threatened. Just like Jews are not a threat to Jordan just by living in Judah and Samaria, the Armenians are not a threat to the Azers. Higher purposes, on the contrary, are not a luxury. The Jewish People exist for a higher purpose, to make the world into a dwelling place for G-dliness. Participating in mass murder contradicts that purpose, and therefore must stop. How can we point to our own victimhood in the face of genocidal maniacs, if we’re in bed with the persecutors of another victimized people. What’s next? We’ll help ISIS kill Yazidis if they give us a shot at Assad? Sorry. No. What’s wrong is wrong.
[So Armenians are an existential threat to Israel because they live in Nagorno-Karabakh and the Azers want them gone, and also they don’t like us much.]
Whereas Armenia - it’s really hard to see what it has going for it as far as either being naturally inclined towards warm relations with Israel or being useful as a friend of Israel. Depending on how you look at it, Armenia has Russia either covering its back or ready to recover it as an oblast. No one’s about to re-enact the Armenian genocide. This is just one of those territorial skirmishes that could go back and forth for centuries. What better time to get in Azerbaijan’s good books?
“Whereas Armenia - it’s really hard to see what it has going for it as far as either being naturally inclined towards warm relations with Israel or being useful as a friend of Israel.”
Let’s suppose it has nothing going for it. Armenians are human beings, and they are being shot at and killed in Nagorno-Karabakh. Armenians from Armenia are stepping in to help them fight back. Azeris have their side to it, I’m sure. But it’s not our affair.
“No one’s about to re-enact the Armenian genocide. This is just one of those territorial skirmishes that could go back and forth for centuries. What better time to get in Azerbaijan’s good books?”
We can do the same without bloodying our hands just by staying out of it.
Furthermore, right in Iran there is a solution to the Iranian problem, because their oil fields are mostly in Khuzestan, which is the homeland of a tribe of Arabs known as the Ahwazi. The Iranians are persecuting and mistreating them while they exploit the oil fields that are rightfully theirs. The Ahwazi want to separate from Iran. Israel could get in the good books of the Ahwazi, the Kuwaitis, and perhaps the entire Arab world by covertly helping the Ahwazi gain their independence, thereby depriving Iran of its oil and the means by which it finances its terrorism and expansionist designs on the Sunni Arab world. No need for an Azeri airstrip, or to act as chandlers to Azeri bloodletting of Armenians, thereby fomenting resentment against us with other eastern Christians, and making permanent the Armenian animosity. Here’s an article I wrote on the subject.
https://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm?frm=190231&sec_id=190231
Last, but not least, providing supplies to the Azeris would show the Muslim world at large that (1) Israel is not inalterably hostile to Muslim interests and (2) Israel is not a fair weather friend. This would help Israel improve relations with Jordan and Egypt while creating the possibility of even more diplomatic openings with the Muslim world.
[Furthermore, right in Iran there is a solution to the Iranian problem, because their oil fields are mostly in Khuzestan, which is the homeland of a tribe of Arabs known as the Ahwazi. The Iranians are persecuting and mistreating them while they exploit the oil fields that are rightfully theirs. The Ahwazi want to separate from Iran. Israel could get in the good books of the Ahwazi, the Kuwaitis, and perhaps the entire Arab world by covertly helping the Ahwazi gain their independence, thereby depriving Iran of its oil and the means by which it finances its terrorism and expansionist designs on the Sunni Arab world.]
Supporting proxies without either the martial or financial werewithal to win their own freedom is a big power’s game, not something Israel can afford or push through to a successful conclusion. But even the US waited until Israel was solidly established as a country and had won 2 wars before turning on the weapon sales spigot. Uncle Sam is still in Kosovo today, over 2 decades after the establishment of KFOR bases, despite Serbia being mostly defanged. Keeping Iran out of Khuzestan is something only Uncle Sam would have the resources to do comfortably. For Israel to jump in is unthinkable.
For Israel to jump in by itself and openly would be a disaster, indeed. However, the Ahwazi’s plight is not a new thing. Iran has been screwing them over since 1925, and the rest of the Arab world has noticed big time. And their liberation is in the interests of the US as well, for exactly the same reason as it’s in Israel’s, Kuwait’s, our new friends in the Gulf, and for that matter the Azers’, who are threatened by Iran as well. Pipe dream? So was the Exodus from Egypt. So was the State of Israel itself. There can be miracles when you believe. But no need to split any seas for this one. It’s about as doable as hanging Haman was a few millennia ago.
“...providing supplies to the Azeris would show the Muslim world at large that (1) Israel is not inalterably hostile to Muslim interests and (2) Israel is not a fair weather friend.”
So would bringing about the liberation of the Ahwazi. I know something about friendship. My son used to be best friends with a kid with Down Syndrome. They were inseparable. He would stick up for him always. Then he became a teenager and wanted to be popular with the other kids, so he dumped his old pal publicly, hurting his feelings terribly. Guess what. He remained an outcast himself, I suspect because he did not stick to principles. If Israel bids to become best buds with Azerbaijan by helping it beat up on the besieged Nagorno Armenians, he might have Azeri friendship for a time, but lose everyone’s respect, and piss off Russia, which is angry that it’s cease fire agreement has been discarded. Our supposed oppression of Palestinians is a hyped up fiction with many mitigating circumstances. But to help Azers to ethnically cleans Armenians would truly be a case of the formerly oppressed siding with oppressors. Armenians and Azers have lived side by side in Nagorno Karabakh for at least a century, if not always peacefully, they are still neighbors. Better to stop enabling the Azeris and help broker a new cease fire, with Russia taking the lead.
Let’s be fair. Israel hasn’t exactly been friendly or fair to Armenia. Some Israelis even deny the Armenian Genocide.
Israel isn’t above reproach. I stand with Armenia.
Thank you. Well stated.
We should have never been in Kosovo, nor should have we ever attacked Serbia.
The actions of the US and NATO were shameful and an embarrassment. We were 100% in the wrong.
I have to thank Zhang Fei. This debate has given me material aplenty for another article. He focused me.
I live in Israel, and my country is not above reproach on many scores. But we are striving towards ideals, not discarding them for temporary gain, which is what supplying the Azars is.
“I stand with Armenia.”
I do too. The point I was making was a diplomatic one. A nation, any nation, that is asked for favors from a non-ally tends to respond “what have you done for us lately” and “what’s in it for us”. From that perspective, Armenia may have a better shot just asking for the same arms deals that Azerbaijan has. Either that, or throw in a few strong incentives to commit themselves as allies, like moving their embassy to Jerusalem.
Don’t get me wrong; I also support Israel. I was just wanting to point out that, IMHO, Israel is wrong concerning Armenia.
Just as the US was wrong about Serbia and Kosovo.
Dead wrong about Armenia. I agree. Just found a free word processing program to replace google docs, so I’ll be writing on it for publication.
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