Why waltz when you can Rock & Roll
Posted on 09/14/2001 5:48:10 PM PDT by SlickWillard
Not to be paranoid, but I have a bad feeling about this war we're entering. This summer I socialized with some Arabs, and, quite frankly, they're not the friendliest people in the world. Plus, they know my home address. Just to be on the safe side, I'd like to purchase a rifle or a shotgun in the next few days, but I have very little experience in these matters. I have long followed the FR threads on these matters (see below), and was hoping to draw on the expertise of the FR community. I am told that if I pass the phone-in test, I should be able to purchase a long gun or rifle in about 15 minutes. Would you please help me, and other Freepers like me, by offering your ideas about weapons for use in times of civil unrest? If possible:
1) Please limit your suggestions to things that the consumer has a reasonable chance to purchase in a store near his or her home. You aren't going to walk into the gun store down the street and find a $5000 fifty-caliber sniper cannon with a $1500 telescope.2) Please limit your discussion to the practical effectiveness of the weapon, not its theoretical effectiveness. Theoretically, in close quarters, a fully automatic M-16 is superior to a semi-automatic M1, but, in practice, the consumer can only purchase a semi-automatic M-16 (AR-15). Theoretically, at 500 meters, a semi-automatic M1 is superior to a fully automatic M-16, but, in practice, unless you build your house next to the Bonneville salt flats, you'll never encounter a 500 meter line of sight.
3) Remember, the weapon has to be a long gun (rifle) that can be purchased on the spot. No handguns, or anything else that requires a waiting period. Note that this rules out the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP). Also, we're talking complete, fully functioning weapons here. You don't have six weeks to assemble the weapon from the very best parts made by the very best machine shops.
4) The cost of the ammo is very nearly as important as cost of the weapon. If a round costs $5, the newbie can't afford to become familiar with the weapon.
5) The tables below don't mention shotguns, because they haven't been the subject of much discussion here at FR. A pump action shotgun is probably about the best weapon you can have in close quarters (that, or a very large, very aggressive canine). Please give any suggestions you have concerning reliable, reasonably priced pump action shotguns and their shells.
6) Much of the information in the tables that follow is probably wrong. Don't hesitate to point out any mistakes or fallacies that you spot.
7) Finally, and most sadly, the weapon is not for killing squirrels, rabbits or deer. Instead, the weapon is to be kept at your side, in case the bad guys show up at your house and present a "you or them" situation. The purpose of the weapon is to maximize the probability that it's them, not you.
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| For Sale: |
| http://www.gunbroker.com (a division of ebay) |
| http://www.galleryofguns.com |
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| http://www.shotgunnews.com |
I'm a country boy, or used to be - we're being swallowed by urban sprawl. In three directions, we have neighbors, or heavily traveled roads, within several hundred yards of our house. I'm worried that if I discharge a 30.06 and it ricochets, there could be hell to pay. I think I might be able to sit on the first floor roof and shoot down into the back yard, but even then, I probably ought to build some kind of retaining wall just to be safe. I was thinking something like 4X8X16 solid cinderblock masonry, fronted by 6X6 pressure treated pine, fronted by several layers of hay.
A few years ago, some poor high school teacher near here was out for an evening walk in his development. He was struck by a 30.06 round that had already passed through a deer (some distance away), and he died instantly (which makes two really remarkable coincidences: that he was hit by a stray round, and that the hunter who discharged the round actually fessed up to it). If I were responsible for something like that, I could never forgive myself.
Any recommendations (or manufacturers to avoid)?
You won't have time to learn how to properly use a rifle in a disciplined fashion if you're buying it at crisis time. When things settle for a while, get a .308 rifle and appropriate training. Until then, the scattergun will fit the user reasonably well.
Is there any way to purchase an AK and have some reasonable assurance that
1) it wasn't manufactured by slave labor in China, and that2) it wasn't used to kill our guys in Vietnam?
Yes. And it's a Mini-14 stainless. The grandson of your M-1.
Classic designs just keep on going and going and going.
Why waltz when you can Rock & Roll
Is there anything in particular that makes the FAL stand out? It seems to be sort of middle of the road at everything: middle of the road pricing, middle of the road reliability, middle of the road accuracy. Or am I missing something?
I second that choice. I have one, and just the sound of cocking it can send them running.
Whatever model has the shortest over-all length. You don't want to be knocking over any lamps.
But if I had just one gun? I would go with a 16" AR15. I used to think shotgun, but after shooting these for nearly a year, and becoming rather proficient with them, nothing compares. I used to keep the 12 gauge handy for home defense. Now I keep the red dot sighted AR next to the bed. Anyone coming in here is going to think they walked into a hornets nest. :)
My Father was in service when the Thompson was standard issue. He told me it was very accurate to the limits of the .45 cartridge, about 150 yards.
However, the Thompson is not for beginners. Stick with a 20 or 12 gauge shotgun.
Really, unless you can pass the BATF body cavity search, get all the paperwork approved, and buy the kind of safe and alarm system they demand, a full-auto Thompson is not worth the hassle.
A semi-only Thompson is a good weapon, but not quite as good as .223 or .308 semi-automatic rifle.
At close range a 12 gauge shotgun makes the most sense given everything you asked about.
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