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To: pray4liberty
Jerry may have taken a lot of flak for what he said, but for what it's worth, there are Biblical injunctions against sin, of which pornography, corruption, abortion, unmistakably are.

I would never question your right to believe that if you want, but I personally don't consider porn or abortion to be necessarily sinful. Besides, herbal abortificants were not (as far as I know) considered murder by any religious figures in Biblical times. Jewish tradition teaches that a infant acquires a soul in his or her first breath... but I'm straying from the point.

No one is 'speaking for God' -- it's already in there and He speaks well enough for Himself.

If you accept whatever version of The Bible Farwell uses as the literal and infallible Message From The Divine. I don't. I don't mind that you and Jerry do, but I do find it rather arrogant and inflammatory that he would blame me for revoking "God's protection". I'm not saying he hasn't the right to say it, but you better believe I'm voting against any politician who shares his sentiment.

And another thing... isn't it kinda, well, medieval to go around saying every event or tragety is the Judgement Of God? You'd think Roberson would have learned after predicting "tornadoes, hurricanes, and possibly a meteor" to strike Disneyworld in 98, only to get his own state smacked by hurricane Bonnie...

22 posted on 09/15/2001 2:09:26 AM PDT by Frogurt
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To: Frogurt
So let me see if I understand you. You believe in a God that only gets involved "occaisionally" and for the most part is just sort of "letting things happen". Am I right?

I don't know if you feel that the Bible supports such a view, and I don't kow that you believe the Bible is relevant, but if you believe in "A God" you might want to read His word some. In this instance I would recommend Job. Perhaps one of the oldest books in His word. Job and his friends were trying to figure out why such terrible things had happened to the "world's most righteous man". Job asked this question of God. Read God's answer very carefully. "Job, where were you when I laid the foundation for the world..." If you believe in God this sentence should make you shudder.

In fact if you sort of skip around to random places in your Bible you can find manyplaces where this "idea" of His Sovereignty is supported. Let us turn our attention to one of the newest books in the Bible, Matthew 15. Our Saviour points out that in verse 13 "every plant my Father has not planted will be uprooted". This veiw of the redeemed of the Lord seems rather harsh, doesn't it? In fact, from our perspective, it seems downright unreasonable, doesn't it? Before we begin to chastise Him we had best remember His answer to Job, "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the world..."

So we can clearly find that He is Sovereign. We can also find that He knows not all of His creation will worship Him. We know He uses people for His will. It doesn't take much to extend these facts logically to see that He will use those who hate Him just as readily as those who love Him. There you have it. His hand is in everything, we, of course have the freedom to choose, but he knows our choice before we do, and in fact, He counts on it. His book supports this view. Frankly it doesn't support the view you seem to have, that He only "gets involved occaisionally".

23 posted on 09/15/2001 8:46:08 AM PDT by wastoute
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To: Frogurt
Consider not that the events in NYC show not only His terrible Judgement, but the mercy of His lovingkindness, as well. Those towers had upwards of 30,000 people in and around them as the events began to unfold. All but 5,000 appear to have been able to get to safety. I don't know about you but to me that appears to show His hand clearly as well, for you see His Mercy is meaningless without His Judgement.
26 posted on 09/15/2001 8:49:45 AM PDT by wastoute
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To: Frogurt
I would never question your right to believe that if you want, but I personally don't consider porn or abortion to be necessarily sinful.

Then you are living in denial. Haven't you ever heard of the divine, cosmic law of cause-and-effect? Also known as "karma"?? What do you think the effects of porn and abortion are? They delude people into thinking they will find sexual happiness and freedom from responsibility through them. Meanwhile, they live in spiritual death.

There is a cosmic law that is very exact and has no sense of humor. What we sow, we reap. Man brings suffering upon himself from wrong thoughts and action. When he cleans his act up and makes a spiritual effort, turning his limited human consciousness to God-consciousness, through prayer and right action, his future will improve. All of us can make that choice at any time.

This is a world of delusion, of light and shadow, evil and good. You don't seem to want to acknowledge that evil exists even though we had a fine demonstration of it on Tuesday.

29 posted on 09/15/2001 10:01:56 AM PDT by pray4liberty
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To: Frogurt
Since you don't believe that these are 'not necessarily' sins, please explain, if you would, just how pornography and abortion have enriched and improved your life??
33 posted on 09/15/2001 10:52:36 AM PDT by pray4liberty
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To: Frogurt
Porn not sinful? Whoever looks at a woman with lust commits adultery according to the Bible.
94 posted on 09/15/2001 2:32:41 PM PDT by Tribune7
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To: Frogurt
What version of the Holy Bible you've ingested leads you to feel pornograpy, homosexuality, abortion and corruption are not offenses to a holy God?
96 posted on 09/15/2001 3:38:36 PM PDT by marcde
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