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To: Frumious Bandersnatch
First, I'm not aware of the evidence you mention, that Linus was more likely installed by Paul. Can you direct me to something?

As for the question of apostolic authority, I'm not aware of any tradition that the See of Rome deferred to the Apostle John. The very fact that Clement takes it as no less than his right and duty to write to the Corinthians sugests quite the contrary.

Nor am I aware of any evidence to support your hypothesis of a speedy post-Johannine emergence of a universal consensus that a "radical shift" in authority (what you call "temporal power") to Rome was indicated. To suggest that Rome enjoyed pre-eminence till the mid-60s (relying on the living Peter), and then lost it (in deference to John), only to regain it 35 years later is simply not credible to me, and implies a flightiness that does violence to any historical understanding of how information moved and doctrine developed in those days.

42 posted on 10/18/2001 11:21:42 AM PDT by Romulus
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To: Romulus
There appears to be no evidence that Rome enjoyed any preeminence before Ignatius.

Also, to presume that Rome took precedence over John (who was anointed by Christ)flies in the face of any commonsense at all.  It assumes now that which was not assumed by any word or deed by contemparies of the Apostles (not to mention the fact that it would, in effect, overrule Christ).

As far as Clement's letter to the Corinthians is concerned, he seems to go to extraordinary pains to indicate that he is writing as the spirit directs him, not as one having any authority over the church in Corinth (of course, this is a matter of opinion and can be construed in a number of different ways, buy my opinion in this matter is still a reasonable construction).

The big sticking point with all this is the fact that the Apostles who were preeminant during Peter's lifetime would all of a sudden become second class with Peter's death.  That makes no sense at all, especially in light of the fact that Jesus had especially chosen most of them for their mission.  It could just as easily be argued that other bishops or apostles appointed by Peter take precedence over Rome.  During Peter's lifetime, the strict hierarchy acknowledged and practiced by the Christian church was: Jesus Christ as the head of the church, followed by the Apostles (with Peter as the lead apostle) who were special ministers followed by the bishoprics who were appointed by the apostles.  At no time, during this period, did any of the bishops have authority to make or remove bishoprics.  That authority was the Apostles alone.  Clement, in his letter, never even so much as hints that he has such authority.
43 posted on 10/18/2001 12:12:56 PM PDT by Frumious Bandersnatch
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