Either You Are a Believer or an Infidel

Washington Post ^ | 10/21/2001 | Michael Skube

[Pokey78]

From President Bush to imams at American mosques, everyone wants to make earnest bows toward Islam's civilizing past and its deep spirituality, taking issue only with terrorists who claim to act in its name. "Our quarrel is not with Islam," the president has repeated in so many words.

The problem is that Islam has a quarrel with us, and the antagonists are not simply a few extremists trained in the use of a box cutter. By now, the elephant -- or camel, if you will -- in the room can no longer be ignored: Islam not only exhibits a frightful intolerant streak at times, but its very nature seems to be one of intolerance. Either you are a believer or you are an infidel.

[Migraine]

For two decades and more, "secular" has been a term of opprobrium among Christian fundamentalists

I think not. While I can't speak for other Christians, my quarrel with secularists comes only when they try to deny or prohibit the free exercise thereof (i.e., create a freedom FROM religion). There is also a sense in which secularism sometimes becomes a religion in its own right, and it becomes a downright authoritarian one when it attempts to clear the decks of all music but its own.

[Senator Pardek]

It is a savage cult. I don't hate those who are sucked into it any more than I hate all who are sucked into the Church of Satan.

But why is Islam given leeway, when the COS is derided, even though it's just another religion?

[BCrago66]

You can have your Christianty. Just don't attempt to enforce it on others at the point of a gun. The whole point of the editorial is that Christains have not engaged in that practice for hundreds of years. But Islam has not so evolved.

[Darheel]

The Muslims used to be Christians and Jews before they were converted at the tip of a sword, they are self-haters. If their society and culture aren't enough to prove it, their literature does. The koran is a book of lies and people like us are kafirs, unbelievers who must die(or convert). Not gonna happen, Christianity is now THE fastest growing religion in the world. It's all about Jesus, Islam is dying and these are its death throes.

[TwilightDog]

Fantastic. The Washington Post comes out against Islam. People are really waking-up to this long politically correct whitewash of Islam.

[Jmouse007]

"Islam Means Peace" =

Don't you get it? When they kill or subjigate all the Christians and Jews in the entire world there will be "peace."

"Moderate Muslims Fear Their Message Is Being Ignored"

No, we got the real message loud and clear on September 11th!

I hear a lot about being "tolerant" towards Muslims, but not about the Muslims being tolerant of Christians and Jews. I have just one question:

Where are the thousands upon thousands and millions of Muslims and their clerics voicing their outrage over what their religion has foisted upon New York and the United States?

Answer: They don't exist because Islam is NOT a "tolerant" religion, nor is it a religion of "peace" (just ask the Christians being killed and persecuted by Islam throughout the rest of the world.

[SurferDoc]

Surprising. Maybe this talk of 'change' is true.

[Dumb_Ox]

In such a world, the values bequeathed the West by the Enlightenment -- reason and tolerance, generosity and doubt, most of all the autonomy of the individual conscience -- are humanity's best, indeed its only, hope.

Tell that to the Vendeeans, Professor Gay.

Wherever theological intolerance is admitted, it must inevitably have some civil effect; and as soon as it has such an effect, the Sovereign is no longer Sovereign even in the temporal sphere: thenceforce priests are the real masters, and kings only their ministers. Now that there is and can be no longer an exclusive national religion, tolerance should be given to all religions that tolerate others, so long as their dogmas contain nothing contrary to the duties of citizenship. But whoever dares to say: Outside the Church is no salvation, ought to be driven from the State, unless the State is the Church, and the prince the pontiff. Such a dogma is good only in a theocratic government; in any other, it is fatal.
-Rousseau's Civil Religion

Tolerance is nothing new. Only the parties have switched places.

[danielobvt]

"Muslims have trouble living peaceably with their neighbors. The question naturally arises as to whether this pattern of late-20th-century conflict between Muslim and non-Muslim groups is equally true of relations between groups from other civilizations. In fact, it is not. Muslims make up about one-fifth of the world's population, but in the 1990s they have been far more involved in intergroup violence than the people of any other civilization. The evidence is overwhelming."
This pretty much sums it up. Not too much redeeming in this religion.
I was really suprised that an op-ed with a quote like that was in the WP. Pretty unusual for them.

[TrueBeliever9]

BUMP

[MissAmericanPie]

Well said.

[Migraine]

Thanks, MissAmericanPie -- I always enjoy hearing from you

[xzins]

The whole point of the editorial is that Christains have not engaged in that practice

I agree that is the point of the article....at least one point.

However, one huge difference between Christianity and Islam is that Christians are forbidden by their founder from both forcing their religion by military coercion AND from DEFENDING their faith in DOCTRINAL CONFRONTATIONS by the use of military force. (Those who live by the sword shall die by the sword.) Christians are not forbidden from participating in governmental efforts to maintain a peaceful and secure society (witness the number of early Christians who were members of the Roman military.) In fact, it is this allowance to participate in police and military that gave rise to the totalitarian Christianity of the Middle Ages....originating in Constantine.

In Islam, there is a clear directive to mix the sacred and the secular worlds and to advance the cause by military force. Mohammed himself led armies. Combining both his example and his doctrine, one can only wonder that Islam hasn't been MORE militant throughout history.

There is NO such example from Christ. His words were, "My kingdom is NOT of this world. If it were I could have asked my Father, and he would have provided twelve legions of angels...(Matthew 26:53)" He never led an army. He never fired a weapon in anger. He never encouraged a Jihad.

His words, "the kingdom of God is within you."