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To: David Gould
I don't know who twisted who's arm at the Clinton News Network to post this article:

http://www.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/alternative/01/18/prayer.power.wmd/

But I find it interesting that such a liberal media would be willing to post such a conservative piece. I am waiting for the "other shoe" to drop :-) .

This study provides empirical evidence that Christian prayer "works". I also read on MSN of a similar study that indicated that Christian prayer succeeded in a similar experiment where Hindu, Buddhist, etc. well-wishing failed.

Fascinating!

The paradox you describe is often addressed in religious discussions. You should talk with a pastor. I'm no expert! but I like to think of God's omniscience in terms of chess. If I know enough, I will know my opponent's options and how to react to them before he moves. My opponent maintains his free will and exercises his choice, but my response is already canned and the ultimate outcome is predestined. Now extend that logic to a being so omniscient that He can in an instant know the count of hairs on every human's head on the planet...

Good luck on your journey!
189 posted on 11/19/2001 8:05:38 PM PST by so_real
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To: so_real
"The question we’re talking about tonight, apparently settled, according to the National Enquirer , the scientific proof that’s been presented that God answers our prayers. I think that this is a little excessive. We certainly don’t have proof of this by any means. And what we’re going to talk about tonight is the question, as Patrick says, is there scientific evidence that intercessory prayer speeds recovery. And I’ll give my answer to that question right now. I think “no” is the answer to that question. The evidence that we have to date doesn’t say anything about, there is no evidence yet that recoveries are speeded. I might rephrase the question: “is there evidence that intercessory prayer improves medical outcomes?” To that I would say there is evidence and that’s what I will present tonight. "

from Transcript of the March 13th, 2001, Debate Between William Harris, PhD, Saint Luke's Hospital, Kansas City, MO, and Irwin Tessman, PhD, Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN

http://www.csicop.org/articles/20010810-prayer/

Prayers may have an effect, according to Dr William Harris, but as to the cause...

I am guessing that you guys already realise that I am sceptical. However, I will look out for other studies done on this with great interest.

As to the chess idea, are you suggesting that God bases at least some of his 'moves' on whether particular people pray or do not pray and (presumably) on what they pray for? Interesting. I take it that you are not a Calvinist. :)

Then the question becomes: how often does he do this and how much prayer is needed to be effective? If it is more time effective for a good Christian to (using a bad example) knit socks for the elderly than pray, shouldn't that be done in schools instead of praying?

As you can see, I am still trying to understand why Christians want to pray in schools. Is it purely a political thing? In such case, surely it is not something that good Christians should support.

As I said earlier, the dance thing is a good idea but maybe it need not have a Christian spin on it to work. Imagine how many more people might be interested if they weren't put off by the Christian trade mark... Better to get people dancing than have them selling or buying drugs...

190 posted on 11/19/2001 8:39:37 PM PST by David Gould
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