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To: WhiskeyPapa
he is clearly on the record favoring black equality and black suffrage later in the war

Like BillBears always says, why didn't lincoln free the slaves in 1861 prior to the war? Actions speak louder than words. (No cut and paste-o-rama, please).

435 posted on 11/23/2001 6:21:11 PM PST by stainlessbanner
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To: stainlessbanner
he is clearly on the record favoring black equality and black suffrage later in the war

Like BillBears always says, why didn't lincoln free the slaves in 1861 prior to the war? Actions speak louder than words. (No cut and paste-o-rama, please).

I suppose you are skimming my Lincoln quotes or not reading them at all.

Lincoln is on the record well before the war saying that blacks had a right to the fruits of their own labors.

Lincoln also said before the war that any intimation that he favored black equality was just a fantastic arrangement of words by which a man could prove a horse chestnut to be a chestnut horse.

His ideas grew over time. That is pretty amazing right there. Some people seem incapable of learning, but not Lincoln; Lincoln came to respect the ability of black soldiers and said quite plainly that the rebellion could not be subdued without their aid. Yes, that is right.

As to why Lincoln didn't free the slaves in 1861; Lord, love a sinner. Lincoln made it very plain that he knew he had no power to affect slavery as president.

Listen very carefully: In his first inaurgual address, he made plain that he would support a constitutional amendment to protect the domestic institutions of the states.

Yes, that is right. This was the famous "first" 13th amendment.

Despite this attempt at compromise, the so-called seceded states did everything they could to precipitate a war. Don't forget that when Lincoln took the oath of offfce, seven states were -already- in open rebellion

Lincoln personally detested slavery, and felt it gave the lie to true freedom in this country. It made people in other countries laugh at our Declaration of Independence. Lincoln didn't like that. He sincerely wanted freedom for all.

Lincoln also well knew that as president he had no power to interfere with slavery in the states. It was strictly a state matter. What the slave holders feared was --future- actions action by the federal government. There might comea time when the Constitution -was- amended to eliminate slavery. And that is why they bolted; and they made it very plain that this was why they were denouncing and foreswearing the old flag and the government of Washington, Madison and the other framers.

Here is Lincoln in 1858:

"I will say here, while upon this subject, that I have no purpose directly or indirectly to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so. I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and the black races. There is a physical difference between the two, which in my judgment will probably forever forbid their living together upon the footing of perfect equality, and inasmuch as it becomes a necessity that there must be a difference, I, as well as Judge Douglas, am in favor of the race to which I belong, having the superior position. I have never said anything to the contrary, but I hold that notwithstanding all this, there is no reason in the world why the negro is not entitled to all the natural rights enumerated in the Declaration of Independence, the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. [Loud cheers.] I hold that he is as much entitled to these as the white man. I agree with Judge Douglas he is not my equal in many respects---certainly not in color, perhaps not in moral or intellectual endowment. But in the right to eat the bread, without leave of anybody else, which his own hand earns, he is my equal and the equal of Judge Douglas, and the equal of every living man. [Great applause.]

August 21, 1858

Sounds like a typical politician to me.

"I understand a proposed amendment to the Constitution-which amendment, however, I have not seen-has passed Congress, to the effect that the Federal Government shall never interfere with the domestic institutions of the States, including that of persons held to service. To avoid misconstruction of what I have said, I depart from my purpose not to speak of particular amendments so far as to say that, holding such a provision to now be implied constitutional law, I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable."

March 4, 1861

What else do you want from Lincoln? Poor Lincoln, he gets excoriated by revisionist historians no matter what he does. As this exceprt from his first inaugural shows, he cared nothing for blacks.

Oh wait, he told Frederick Douglass there was "no man in the country whose opinion I value more than yours."

He DID propose voting rights for black soldiers.

Which is the true Lincoln? As I have tried to suggest, Lincoln grew and changed And those who cherry pick his writings, be they black or white, are easily exposed.

Walt

444 posted on 11/24/2001 12:39:59 AM PST by WhiskeyPapa
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To: stainlessbanner
Like BillBears always says, why didn't lincoln free the slaves in 1861 prior to the war?

Because he had no Constitutional authority to. Slavery was legal under the Constitution. It took the 13th Amendment to end Slavery in the United States. The Emanicapion Proclamation only freed slaves in areas in revolt that fell under Federal Military Control. They were legally no longer states and therefore the President, as Commander in Chief of the armed forces, had the ability to issue executive orders concerning the law in those areas.

The fact that you ask the question above means that you have a lot of learning to do.

450 posted on 11/24/2001 6:53:46 AM PST by Ditto
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