No Thumbprint, No Rental Car

Wired News ^ | 11/21/01 | Julia Scheeres

[Jean S]

When James Glave arrived at Oakland International Airport and went to retrieve the rental car he had reserved over the Internet, he was dismayed to learn that the agency not only required his driver's license and payment information, but also his thumbprint.

[Cold Heat]

The GPS and speeding crap was mentioned earlier in the thread. I'm not going to bother looking up the post #s but I obviously am not in favor of these things and do not equate them to fingerprints for identification purposes.

[Roscoe]

It's horrible that the government mandates this! They don't? Oh. It's horrible that I am forced to rent a car from this company! I'm not? Oh. It's horrible that this company would establish a contractual requirement without consulting my opinion first! Yeah, that's it!

LOL

[justshutupandtakeit]

Try this on then.

Bogus customer rents cars with bogus ID.

B.c. delivers car to Soprano chop shop. Car chopped.

Rental company loses many cars to Soprano car theft chop shop operation.

Profits collapse.

Dividends disappear.

Shareholders unhappy with stock price collapse demand better methods of security. Thumbprint.

Remember the episode in the Soprano's where Chris pays some Asian guy to take his broker's license test?

Remember how many of the hijackers had phony IDs drivers licenses etc.

Proof of identity will become even more important in the future. Will you object to providing a physical description of yourself?

[RnMomof7]

The purpose of that fingerprinting is to make sure that there is no history of crime...very different than allowing big brother to begin a file on your child..

I would ask them to weigh the benefits of being printed against not getting the job..

There is a plan being put forth that everyone in America have a "travel" card (National ID by another name) with a picture,a thumb print,and a chip with information from one or more of the many national data bases.....

Sorry stu..but I don't like it...

[Doctor Stochastic]

Another problem with fingerprints is that they are not as good as many people believe.

Suspect Identities

[freeeee]

Investors just want their money. They don't really care one way or another how the company makes it.

The market (through investors) will decide if the losses from consumer boycott will outweigh losses from stolen rental cars.

Proof of identity will become even more important in the future. Will you object to providing a physical description of yourself?

Yes, I will object. And I'll make my preference known to the market in the only language it speaks - with my dollars.

[stuartcr]

When the military or civil authorities finger print you, you will have a file, regardless of the original reason. Most states licensing agencies now have your face in a digital database. When you walk by a mirror in a supermarket, you usually have your picture taken, when you go to the bank, the same. There are very few individuals in this country that are not in a database. Currently, you cannot ride on a commercial airliner without a picture ID. I don't care for it either, but unless we want to go back in time, that's the way it is. With increased civil protections, we have decreased civil liberties.

[justshutupandtakeit]

How many criminals have been arrested on fingerprint evidence only to be released later when other evidence comes to light? Many, a few , none?

My point though is that it is necessary in certain circumstances to be able to prove that you are who you claim to be and IDs are not reliable.

[RnMomof7]

With increased civil protections, we have decreased civil liberties.

At what price freedom? The safest place in the world is China......God help us!

[Cyman]

I totally agree with your point. Three years ago I had my wallet stolen out of my own office. I reported it to the police and all three of my cards(Visa, Master & Amex)within 2 hours. The guy that swiped my cards was able to use them in the local WalMart, Toys-R-Us and K-Mart to the tune of over $8000.00. When I personally contacted the manager of the Walmart, he looked up the sales and thru a stroke of luck one of them was rung up thru a back store counter that took pictures of all transactions. The manager told me to have the local police call and he would hand over the tape. I called the police and the credit card companies and to make a long story short, they did not get around to asking for the tape for 2 months( by then the tape had been erased). But the kicker was that 6 months after this episode I was contacted by the security division of two of the cards and the gentlemen no so subtly insinuated that the circumstances were highly suspicious of some sort of fraud on my part. I straightened both of those people out with a vocal and in your face phone call to their superiors but the whole episode left me with the real feeling that these credit card companies give lip service to these incidents and happily pass the cost of these thefts on to the cardholders

[justshutupandtakeit]

Did you object when you filled out job applications or college applications when that information was required?

There will be no serious boycott of this company for requiring fingerprints. Considering the fact that the per rental profit is fairly low it would take hundreds of boycotters refusing rental to offset the loss of even one car.

This is a tempest in a teapot.

[Ramius]

OK... I tried this a ways upthread but got no takers:

Does a person renting someone else's car have a right to anonymity?

I'm not taking a stand on fingerprints per se, but identification is something that does matter. Specifically: my right to be free from having someone else masquerade as me. There's the rub...

[Wm Bach]

It sounds like a good business opportunity for some entrepenuer to set up a car rental across the street with a "NO THUMBPRINTS/No Hassle - CAR RENTAL" sign.

[freeeee]

Did you object when you filled out job applications or college applications when that information was required?

No job or school has ever required fingerprints or any other biometric information of me. And I strongly object when SSN is asked for to the point that I'll refrain from doing business with those that demand it, if I can possibly do so. If someone isn't from the Social Security Administration, they don't need to know my SSN, period.

There will be no serious boycott of this company for requiring fingerprints.

Just look at what happened when they put GPS trackers in cars and started fining people for speeding. They dropped that idea like a hot potato.

Considering the fact that the per rental profit is fairly low it would take hundreds of boycotters refusing rental to offset the loss of even one car.

I'm doing my part. If you are correct and profits favor fingerprinting, I'll do without rental cars. Firms that disrespect my privacy and treat me like a prospective criminal will not find my money in their cash register.

This is a tempest in a teapot.

This is a single example of a much larger, and extremely important issue - privacy.

[freeeee]

Does a person renting someone else's car have a right to anonymity?

No. The customer is voluntarily entering a contract with a private party. If the customer doesn't like the terms of the rental agreement, they can decide not to enter the contract.

The car's owner has private property rights that allow him to make requirements of customers as he sees fit. If the car owner requires more than the market is willing to bear, whether it be high prices or fingerprints, the market will respond negatively and the car owner may be pressured by economic concerns to reconsider the terms of his contract.

The only rights relevant to this case are private property rights, and the right to voluntarily enter or decline a contract.

[justshutupandtakeit]

My question following your comment was about physical descriptions required for those applications. SS# are required by schools as a matter of course without abuse. This was true even 35 years ago when I was on campus. Big whoop. Obviously your employer will have to have that number. And it is known to just about anyone who wants to know it. You don't tell hospitals or insurance companies?

Using mechanisms that result in higher charges to the customer such as tracking devices etc. are much different than mere security means of assuring identity. I would certainly not rent a car with those mechanisms but have heard nothing about them being dropped.

There is no privacy issue here; unless you wear gloves at all times you leave your fingerprints everywhere everyday.

[freeeee]

SS# are required by schools as a matter of course without abuse. This was true even 35 years ago when I was on campus. Big whoop.

Oh, I see. If someone does something wrong for long enough, it isn't wrong anymore. Thanks for helping me with that.

Obviously your employer will have to have that number.

That is because they deduct steal money from my check for Social Security. I call it stealing because I'll never see a dime of that money because it's been lost in the government's unconstitutional ponzi scheme.

Amazing how one constitutional violation (creating Social Security) leads to all sorts of problems.

If the employer uses the SSN for any other purpose, or discloses it to anyone but Social Security, they have violated my privacy.

And it is known to just about anyone who wants to know it.

"Momma, the kitchen is on fire!"

"Don't put it out, son. Light the living room on fire too."

Thinking of it that way puts slippery slope arguments into persective.

You don't tell hospitals or insurance companies?

Nope. They aren't the Social Security Administration, so they can KMA.

[justshutupandtakeit]

Fine just go back to the cave.

BTW none of your retorts are convincing and are beside the point.

[freeeee]

none of your retorts…are beside the point.

We were discussing privacy here, right?

[Mikey]

" ...saying that thousands of Dollar customers have been thumbprinted in past weeks and the company has received few complaints."

Today thumbprints, tomorrow DNA samples. And soon a bio-implants to make sure your a subject of the UN's new one world government. Anyone without the required implant will not be allowed to buy nor sell.

It is most difficult to free slaves from the chains they worship