Posted on 12/15/2001 2:43:28 PM PST by spycatcher
Hmmm... make that "Celtic Israelism" and it would be closer. ~ggg~
In the time I spent in England/Europe I discovered the definition of "Celt" varied widely from place to place, meaning it didn't have much meaning at all. It was what you wanted it to be. For example, in Ireland I asked the question "What is a Celt", and the answer often came back "A Catholic", as in the Holy Celtic Church.
In England, they thought the Celts were the smaller darker people who lived in Cornwall and Wales. In France they thought it was the smaller darker people who lived in Brittany, etc. In fact, these shorter darker people are simply the mixed offspring of the survivors of the MANY shipwrecks over history from trading with the Med, both before and after the Roman Empire.
Similarly, there many fine coffe table books about the Celts, full of grand photos, but the narratives are just hacks from various authors and sources of dubious repute, all quite provincial. From all of that I became convinced that too many authors were missing the forest for the trees, and later research seems to be bearing that out.
After 20+ years of research and travel and PostDoctoral work at several major European Universities, it is my carefully considered opinion that the Celts are indeed the rootstalk of most of Northern and Western Europe (not just Britain). Furthur, the Celts are none other than the Lost Tribes of Israel. (See my Profile for some of the rationale.)
>It all seems plausible, one thing about the Chinese mummies, it looks from what I previously read that they predate the era of Abraham by quite a bit, in fact the oldest assumptions put them before Adam.
We're back to the uncertainty of carbon dating. To the extent Thor uses the date "5000 years ago" you could be right. I believe he dates the Chinese mummies after the time of Abraham, who lived after 2000 BC, only 4000 years ago.
> Not too sure about that, but I believe the Tarim basin was the area where the flood of Noah occured
Yes, its beginning to look like it
> based on the close proximity of a very likely Eden location that is now the Pamir plateau, this area was an inland sea from about 2300 bc to the time of Christ, IIRC, and so the discovery of these mummies lends support to this theory since they are obviously Adamic in lineage. I believe they were the victims of that flood and their ancestors.
Could be. So you would think the Norwegians came direct from the "Mother Stock"?
Thanks for the link. It is interesting, but like most traditional authors they got the Celtic migrations wrong because their premise was defective. They assumed the Celts somehow magically BEGAN in the region of Hallstadt Austria and LeTennes Switzerland (I have been to both places) and migrated outward from there. In fact, these were only major way stations in the Celtic migration westward and northward from the Caucasus.
I thought it fascinating that Thor linked the Irish to the Norse, not from later Viking times (which is clearly valid) but the Norse from Azerbaijan. This matches nicely with the Irish from the small early Egyptian diaspora.
Also, Thor talks about the Land of Aser. How much closer can you get to the Tribe of Asher, part of which was also part of the earlier Egyptian diaspora?
"Mass migrations during the Bronze Age scattered many peoples across Europe and Asia ..."
it triggers in me the response, "but these were the CELTS!"
If you start out in the Caucasus with 5 MILLION Lost Tribe/Celts in the year 620 BC and they were last seen headed West, you can have a LOT of these little "mass migrations" happening at the same time, but too many academics can't seem to connect them together. Can't see the forest for all those trees in the way. My contention is that if we look at the similarities of these apparently random groups of people drifting in waves mostly northwestward across the countryside, we may find that they are just different clans or tribes of the same people.
(But academic careers are not made by finding answers, they are made by learning more and more about less and less until one knows everything about nothing. Then one is called wise, and if not rocking any boats along they way by doing truly independent thinking, obtains tenure.)
Will put this on the list.
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I agree. Why were they migrating, weather/climate?
I read this study and found it very interesting.
Have never seen anyone specifically address that question. In the absence of better information would have to speculate that it was "for the usual reasons".
But Dr. Iben Brownings thesis that changes in climate due to unreported volcanic activity was one of the biggest reasons for migrations makes sense to me, in both ancient and modern history. (The Little Ice Ages in Europe as a prime example.)
Jacob was Joseph's father, not his son.
That's correct.
> Jacob or Israel was descended from Joseph, so the twelve tribes of Israel were descended from Joseph, but not all of Joseph's decedents are Jewish.
That's correct, except Jacob was descended from Abraham, not Joseph.
>The first dispersion of the Jewish people occurred because of the defeat of Israel by the Assyrians, who deported the Jews to other parts of their kingdom.
Close, but it was the NORTHERN Kingdom which was deported by the Assyrians. The Jews remained behind in the Southern Kingdom.
>The second dispersion of the Jews occurred when Judah fell to the Babylonians (sp?) which is modern day Iraq. Jerusalem fell and the Temple was destroyed. The Jews were carried off to Babylon (Baghdad?). When they were finally released, not all the Jews returned to Jerusalem, some stayed in Iraq and surrounding areas. Some of those folks kept their religion, some did not.
Essentially accurate, but this was the FIRST dispersion of the Jews.
>By the birth of Christ, the twelve tribes of Israel were scattered though out the known world.
Well, the 10 Northern Tribes were certainly scattered, at least throughout much of Europe, and Corinth, Phillipi, Ephesus, Galatia, etc. at that time. But the Jewish Tribes had returned from the Babylonian captivity after only 70 years or so, and mostly remained in Palestine.
>With Christ's ministry many Jews
Make that SOME of the Jews who were in Palestine and ministered to by James.
>...followed "The Way" and were later called "Christians"..
but the major impact of especially the Apostle Paul, and some other Apostles was to the "Lost Tribes of Israel" found in Galatia, Corinth, etc........
>A further corruption of the twelve tribes happened around 800AD, when the Kasars, Kyzars (sp?) were converted to Judaism.
No, this had little if any effect on the CELTS, who were the 10 Lost Tribes, and who were not Jewish.
>So, the bottom line is that who is descended from the twelve tribes and who is not is rather fuzzy.
See the many other entries in this thread, and click on my Profile below.
>They must be the earlier cousins.
I would bet with you on this one. But then, maybe they were just on Vacation from Ireland, heading for Japan, and their camel train got caught in a blizzard. ~ggg~. It's hard to tell from a few mummies whether they were alone or there were thousands of them, the rest eaten by whatever. That is one of the great dilemmas of all Archeology/Anthropology.
What a useless post. Is school out today?
That's what I was looking for, being a catastrophist and such. Hee, hee. Give me an exact date and I'll find something. lol.
I've noticed that. ~ggg~. Can be very useful...
I saw Prof. Browning speak several times before his death. He was a spellbinder, in his own quiet way. Brought a lot of solid science to the table while upsetting some traditionalists and their stale lecture notes. My kind of guy.
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