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1 posted on 12/26/2001 8:35:03 AM PST by massadvj
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To: massadvj
Also, Harry Potter is explicitly and self-admittedly about "witchcraft," while the Lord of the Rings only involves magic. Christians are still fighting against the old, pre-Christian European religion, Wicca (= "witchcraft").
2 posted on 12/26/2001 8:40:17 AM PST by codeword
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To: massadvj
Your take is accurate.
3 posted on 12/26/2001 8:40:41 AM PST by ppaul
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To: massadvj
Harry Potter is aimed squarely at children. LOTR is aimed at adults.
4 posted on 12/26/2001 8:41:16 AM PST by AppyPappy
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To: massadvj
The hero in LotR doesn't use magic. He fights it.
5 posted on 12/26/2001 8:42:40 AM PST by tbeatty
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To: massadvj
Why is Harry Potter Evil But Lord of the Rings Heroic?

Your basic premise is mistaken. Objects cannot be good/evil/heroic or otherwise. Only individuals can have these traits. These movies may promote individuals to these kinds of behavior, but inanimate objects cannot in and of themselves be good or evil.

Having said that, I agree with your basic take on the two movies.

IMHO W.K.

8 posted on 12/26/2001 8:44:04 AM PST by WhiteKnight
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To: massadvj
I agree with you. Many people forget that J.R.R Tolkein was good friends with C.S.Lewis, one of the greatest fantasy and Christian writers of the 20th century. Tolkein has even been credited with helping lead Lewis to Christ. Both of them make effective use of Christian imagery and themes in their fantasy works. The Harry Potter series on the other hand has a more New Age feel and style to it, just as you said. I have not seen either movie yet (although I've ready Tolkein's work and have done a lot of looking into the Potter series), so I cannot make judgements beyond that.

I know which my kids will be allowed to read/watch.

9 posted on 12/26/2001 8:44:24 AM PST by Frumanchu
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To: massadvj
Not a bad take.

I believe another reason is that LOTR has a far more defined contrast between good and evil. In HP, to a large extent good and evil are both severely watered down concepts. A lot more "relativism" in HP, IMHO.

Not that I'm really an expert on HP.

14 posted on 12/26/2001 8:51:13 AM PST by Restorer
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To: massadvj
Harry Potter is just the 'Crusade of the Day' for christians. Last year it was Magic the Gathering that was taking kids away from the church. The year before it was D&D (based on Tolkiens Lord of the Rings ironically). Never do christians look to themselves for the reason that kids seem to rebel and leave the church, it's always some outside evil influence. I shouldn't pick on christians for this failing, everyone has it in large portions. It's only the glaring public hypocracy that so stands out.
15 posted on 12/26/2001 8:51:39 AM PST by Borderline
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To: massadvj
Why is Harry Potter Evil But Lord of the Rings Heroic?

Quite simple. Simply contrast the ways in which sorcery is presented in the two novels.

In LOTR, there are maybe 3 wizards on the entire planet, and any spell casting which occurs, if any, is minimal.

In Harry Potter, the whole thing is about a school for children wizards.

Basically, in LOTR, the whole realm of occult sorcery is minimized, while in Harry Potter it is excessively glorified...

16 posted on 12/26/2001 8:51:47 AM PST by sargon
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To: massadvj
One reason is because the LOTR stories are old and acknowledged classics, whereas HP is new. And as we all know, if it's new, it must be bad.

Another possibility is that Tolkein was an unabashed Catholic (although many HP-bashers say that Catholics aren't actually Christians....), whereas J.K. Rowling's religious leanings aren't public knowledge. Churchmanship is apparently a saving grace. (FYI: Rowling is a practicing Anglican -- a rather uncommon thing in the UK).

Finally, the geek factor. There is not as yet a vast contingent of HP geeks, and there is a whole host of LOTR geeks -- many of whom, I wager, are among the loudest HP bashers. One cannot discount the geek factor -- it lends a tremendous amount of heat and venom to any disagreement. I actually suspect this is the major bone of contention: to an LOTR geek, any avenue of attack against the interloper is allowed.

19 posted on 12/26/2001 8:55:52 AM PST by r9etb
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To: massadvj
I found Harry Potter boring, but was relieved to see that the demonizing of the movie was a definite exaggeration.

Monster, Inc. is a far better movie.

21 posted on 12/26/2001 8:57:17 AM PST by FR_addict
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To: massadvj
In Potter the magical types can't be bothered to try to help humanity with their powers. The characters' fates are out of their control and they do little or nothing to choose how they will live. It is a bleak and amoral world. The Lord of the Rings offers a moral universe of tragedy, temptation, and soul-searching characters.
24 posted on 12/26/2001 9:03:07 AM PST by QuestionBureaucracy
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To: massadvj
"Harry Potter" was a good movie, but not a great one. "Lord of the Rings-FOTR" is a great movie because it successfully translated to the screen a great book, and a great story. Few movies-from-books are truly successful, but this was as good a job as I've seen, and I'm a tremendous fan of the Tolkien trilogy. I'd heard from some devotees of "Harry Potter" who didn't like the movie; it seems the movie was least popular with those who have read the "Harry Potter" books 6 or 7 times....

Tolkien believed that truth could be conveyed through myth. So, he set out to write a myth of epic proportions, and have his plot guided by truth -- truth in an ultimate spiritual sense. The idea of good vs. evil is obvious, but less obvious are lessons such as: the weakness and hence corruptibility of of the human heart; the idea that "even the smallest of persons can change the world" (as Galadrial told Frodo); the value and strength of true friendship, and true friends; the belief that no matter how difficult a situation or a path, there is a benevolent power that guides all of our paths; the idea that ultimate power can only be wielded for good by the most humble (the point of the book and movie that only a humble hobbit, the least assuming of creatures in Middle Earth, can carry the burden of Ringbearer without being corrupted by the power of it); the parallel truth that only the humble are best suited to possess power; the idea (which is greatly needed in our day) that sacrifice is necessary if evil is to be confronted, but there is a nobility even when evil momentarily overcomes good.

Not to ruin it for those who have only seen the movie, but have never read the books, but in "The Two Towers," there is a resurrection (and did anyone else notice that as Gandalf fell into the depths of Moria, he fell in the image of a cross?).

"Harry Potter" was a good movie, but it lacked any communication of truth. The wizards and witches of Hogwarts wield power, but to what end? For what are Harry and his classmates in training? Do wizards exist in Harry Potter's world for some great purpose? Do the exist to benefit mankind, or as agents of some Higher Power for the betterment of the world? It's never clear. It appears that "Harry Potter" possesses power for power's sake; unlike "Lord of the Rings," where power is used as part of a titanic struggle to defeat an all-consuming evil; and yet the possession of power is dangerous, and is not to be coveted (unlike in "Harry Potter").

I almost hate to contrast "Potter" with "LOTRs" because, in truth, there is no comparison. "Harry Potter" was written as a clever story for commercial purposes. "Lord of the Rings" was written as a means of conveying truth. Therein is the greatness of Tolkien's mythology, and weakness of "Potter."

27 posted on 12/26/2001 9:04:16 AM PST by My2Cents
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To: massadvj
The whole issue of Harry Potter being bad is simply ridiculous. Im sure these same folks would also say that BedKnobs and Broomsticks, Escape to Witch Mountain, and some other children movies are satanic or anti-christian as well.
They have a screw loose.
31 posted on 12/26/2001 9:08:17 AM PST by asneditor
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To: massadvj
none of the "good" magic in LOTR is performed by humans, its always performed by other species (this assumes wizards are not humans). when humans use magic in LOTR, the result (not always the intended result) is evil. LOTR urges men to turn away from magic.

HP encourages children to believe that there are short cuts for the special few who are non-muggles (did i spell that right?). in one sense, HP becomes a recruiting tool for the democratic party since it gives unsuccessful kids a cosmology where they can view their failures as consequences of their birth as non-achievers (i.e., muggles). The fault is not in themselves or in their choices, its in their blood.

32 posted on 12/26/2001 9:09:50 AM PST by John Hines
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To: massadvj
You've missed the whole point.

Lord of the Rings presents all magic as the evil that it is, while Potter makes the absurd pretense that there can be good magic. By doing so it leads directly to the embrace of evil. - It provides 'good' that does not come from God.

36 posted on 12/26/2001 9:16:41 AM PST by editor-surveyor
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To: massadvj
The religious faction of the site is keeping quite. And smartly, too. The agnostic faction let the Potter-bashing go without comment because the Potter books possess no value as literature or art.

LotR bashing however, on the part of the religious faction, would start huge flame wars and I believe, by and large, the religious group of FR is far more considerate than to fan such flames.

37 posted on 12/26/2001 9:17:19 AM PST by Psycho_Bunny
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To: massadvj
Read The Books!
39 posted on 12/26/2001 9:19:18 AM PST by shuckmaster
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To: massadvj
Kids watching harry potter might be encourage to try witchcraft. But what would LOR encourge kids to try? being a dwarf, elf, etc?

I think that most people don't automaticly link magic (as in LOR) with witchcraft.

44 posted on 12/26/2001 9:28:13 AM PST by Sci Fi Guy
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To: jrherreid; HairOfTheDog; RosieCotton; billbears; ObfusGate; austinTparty; Texas2step; billbears...
ping
45 posted on 12/26/2001 9:32:32 AM PST by ecurbh
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