Ozzie Smith....a first ballot Hall of Famer?

Self | 01/01/02 | John McCoy

[jmccoy1252]

Hi fellow freepers! How about a little MLB Hall of Fame talk. Ozzie Smith, shortstop for the San Diego Padres and St. Louis Cardinals is up for election to the Hall this year. My question is this, Is the Wizard of Oz a first ballot HOF'er? I have follwed baseball since 1975, and I have never seen a better defensive short stop in the game. Ozzie won 14 straight gold gloves between 1980 and 1992. I still say the greatest defensive play I have ever seen by an infielder was when he barehanded a ground ball and threw the runner out at first base. That was against the Braves either in 1978 or 1979. Some people will argue that Ozzie didn't hit enough to get into the hall of fame at all, much less on the first ballot. Oz was a poor hitter for the first 4 years of his career, but he slowly improved and by 1987, he had a .303 batting average. Also, don't forget the element of speed Oz brought to the game, he stole 580 bases in his career. Ozzie is and was a great ambassador for the game, so in my opinion, yes he is a first ballot HOF'er. The only short stops playing today I would take over Ozzie are A-Rod and Jeter, who are both future HOF'ers in their own right.

[undergroundwarrior]

Comparing Smith against the players of his generation would land Ozzie in the H.O.F. (first ballot). Today's shortstops are much better with the bat. A.Rod, Jeter, Nomar and even Omar. Tejada might move into this category.

[woofer]

The "OZ" is a shoe-in on two counts. Position player and broadcaster. (Ozzie works locally in St. Louis with the other HOF broadcaster, Jack Buck)

[dts32041]

If Ron Santos is not in why should OD be voted in?

[knowtherules]

Ozzie was indeed an exciting player to watch. It is also interesting that you cite Jeter and A-Rod as the only other shortstops that you would rather have.

Interesting because Ozzie had no bat. Not ever. The two shortstops you cite have a bat, but in my opinion, from a glove standpoint, could not hold a candle to Omar Visquel, let alone Oz.

Bottom line, a bat will get you to Cooperstown faster than a glove, alas, Oz only had the latter.

[knowtherules]

Do you mean Ron Santo?

[undergroundwarrior]

Ozzie did manage to get his share of bases on balls and was a very effective basestealer.

Jeter is very good with the glove. Good range and good arm. Should have a better year in 2002 with better health and more comfort teaming with an improving Soriano.

A-Rod has a great arm. What about Nomar? He is an acrobat. I mentioned Omar already. Top notch with the glove.

[undergroundwarrior]

Ozzie did manage to get his share of bases on balls and was a very effective basestealer.

Jeter is very good with the glove. Good range and good arm. Should have a better year in 2002 with better health and more comfort teaming with an improving Soriano.

A-Rod has a great arm. What about Nomar? He is an acrobat. I mentioned Omar already. Top notch with the glove.

[knowtherules]

I favor Jeter to Nomar. If for no other reason than Jeter is a proven winner. Not to mention he had the common sense to give Moriah (sp?) Carey the boot. Besides, how many times can you reposition a batting glove prior to stepping into the box. Nomar is the modern day human rain-delay.

[TheExploited]

There is no way that Ozzie Smith should be first ballot Hall of Famer. I do not think that a middle infielder should get into the HOF because of great defense. They are supposed to play great defense. Bill Mazeroski is a similar situation. He played defense and hit a crucial home run. I think the HOF has been cheapened because players are let in because of hype. Is Ozzie Smith that much better than Mark Belanger? I do not think so. There are three shortstops in the pipeline (A-Rod, Nomar and Jeter) who will push Ozzie far down the list. Ron Santo should be the HOF before Ozzie Smith.

[undergroundwarrior]

Interesting perspective. However, with Rizzutto and Pee Wee in the H.O.F., can we exclude Ozzie???

[No!]

Ozzie was the greatest I'd ever seen...

YES on first ballot!

And he could hit very well, thank you..

He was great on a hit and run and I remember his biggest homer and Jack Buck (my old next door neighbor, btw) saying..

Go CRAZY FOLKS

GO CRAZY!!!

Now who knows what I am talking about out there?

[John H K]

I consider debates over "First ballot" HOF vs. "Not first ballot" HOF impossibly stupid since voters vote individually and it officially means jack diddly squat.

And any voter who thinks someone is clearly a HOFer, but doesn't vote for him his first year of eligibility because he's not a "first ballot HOFer" is a mindless idiot who needs to have his voting privledges stripped from him.

[The G Man]

I vote yes on the HOF for Ozzie

On another topic, what are folks opinions for the football HOF for Kurt Warner and Terrell Davis. I say yes to each. They don't have longevity in their corner, but I liken their careers to Sandy Koufax's. Thoughts?

[The G Man]

"And any voter who thinks someone is clearly a HOFer, but doesn't vote for him his first year of eligibility because he's not a "first ballot HOFer" is a mindless idiot who needs to have his voting privledges stripped from him."

I agree. That is absolutely STUPID. Or how about that fat writer from Philadelphia (Conlon perhaps? ... hes always on Sports Reporters) who only votes for 1 name and then just pulls another name OUT OF A HAT!!! WTF??

[John H K]

Interesting perspective. However, with Rizzutto and Pee Wee in the H.O.F., can we exclude Ozzie???

Ozzie is an obvious HOFer, but the argument that someone should be in the Hall because they are better than someone already in it is one of the many stupid HOF arguments that Bill James lays out.

Just because someone made a stupid decision earlier (Rizzuto; Pee Wee obviously belongs in the HOF) doesn't justify further stupid inclusions.

And because of the rampage of the Veteran's Committee in the 60s and 70s, there are all kinds of terrible players in the HOF from the 1930s; something like 1 out of 3 full time outfielders from the 30s are in the HOF.

If the HOF inclusion criteria became whether some player was better than the worst player in the HOF, we'd end up with 50% of the majors in the HOF eventually.

[AmishDude]

Ping

[jeffyraven]

I think Ozzie should go into the HOF -- eventually. I don't see him as a first ballot choice, but neither is he a veteran's committee kind of guy. I'd say three or four years should suffice.

There are too many other players who've waited or are waiting too long with similar credentials ahead of Ozzie. Mazeroski and Santo are the best examples. The only way to justify Ozzie as a first ballot choice is to use the Brooks Robinson example -- that he was just so completely ahead of the pack with his glove that he should go in. And while Ozzie was truly stunning with the glove, I'm not sure he's in league with B. Robber.

[markn]

[leadpenny]

....a first ballot Hall of Famer?

For a major league sport that is going through "contraction" and probably facing a player's strike and/or a lock-out by the owners, who cares? The greed of the owners and players is destroying a once-great sport for future generations. I'll just live with the memories of my dad taking his kids to old Tiger (Briggs) Stadium.

Don't mean to be so negative. There will always be baseball but there just needs to be some blood-letting at the top. Maybe when it is all sorted out in 20-25 years, dads will once again be able to afford to take their kids to see a major league game. Until then they can vote for whoever they want for Cooperstown. I'll vote by not opening my pocketbook.

I'll also understand if my post is completely ignored by you true baseball fans.