Posted on 01/06/2002 8:15:38 AM PST by KQQL
It's not what I don't understand, but what I do.
The farmers don't need help getting some water, they own ALL the water in that lake, and all they need is for Bush to start recognizing their rights, along with all other property owners in this country.
Think I'm scared of threats? - I guess you've never seen me, or you'd never have gone off on that track.
I'm no 'Bush Basher' - I voted for him, and I still have his bumper stickers on all my rigs, but I won't just look the other way while he pats us on the head, and offers tokens.
I only want to let him know that we require real action, and that we do know the difference.
Bush is President, not King. The Federal courts have used various tools to expand the Federal Reserved Water Rights. These would be the Wilderness Act, Endangered Species Act, Tribal Fishing Rights, and others. It is any presidents sworn duty to enforce these laws. And before you say that Bush could issue an excutive order, he cannot overrule a law or court decision.
For you and others to bash Bush just shows how much of a fool you are. If you want to change it, go after Congress. That is the only way. Bush has asked Congress to revisit ESA. Why don't you do the same.
And as long as he is at it, maybe he could do one on increasing the price of crude. Or maybe he could write one giving me a Federal grant for life, and my heirs, and their heirs, and their heirs, and so on in perputuity.
Drought?! A drought of common sense, yes!
Thanks for the flag. Bush needs to act.
We don't live in a constitutional representative republic anymore, we live in an executive branch run bureaucratic socialist dictatorship lead by above the law global citizens of the world masquerading as "americans". He could order the floodgates open this second and it would happen. He also said it was a "drought". Uh huh. It IS a drought-a governmental "honesty" drought and an "ethics and morality" drought.
I applaud his even mentioning it, and I HOPE he sticks to his word, I sincerely wish this isn't local political grandstanding and politicking, but, funny it took him almost a year to deign to notice it though.... I am *mostly*-of the opinion- sure of two things-one, he doesn't get the real intel from his advisors in a lot of cases, and two, he's not all his public politcal spin perception personna, he has globalist aims the same as most of the high level pols, and land grabs from the peons are on their extensive list.
We'll see what he actually does on this issue. EO's and PDD's are 'reality", they exist,they get used constantly, under this weird state of emergency from this or that we are always under, and following english language definitions, they fall into the "dictates' class. Anyone who can read english can see the ESA as applied in this case clearly violates the fifth amendment at a minimum, several others without breaking any double figure IQ sweat. Now if the government had promptly PAID the farmers, different story. They didn't, they stole it at threat of death gunpoint. Terrorists dressed up in clown suits of respectability and "lawfull-ness". The US has billions for warfare and welfare, and will spend other millions to avoid it's "other" debts when it's cheaper and more convenient to hire some mercenaries with guns and badges to go over there and seize peoples property. Here in the US or overseas, it makes no difference anymore. They do it all the time now. They even had the gall to make those people pay for the water maintenance fees-THOUSANDS of bucks per farm in some cases- they normally accrue when they are receiving the water and making their livings with it! Say WHAT? SAY WHAT?
That's the way this bought and paid for government works now, the "other" way-the constitution and real "law" as it was intended, is long ago past history. It's a multi-trillion dollar con game RACKET now. It would be *nice* if it wasn't so, but it is as it is.
/rant
....and so far the proof is that the Fed Gov is,by show of force...i.e..people with guns, that they intend to keep what is not theirs.
I hope that GWB actually does something concrete about getting the 'soldiers' off of the dam...but in all reality...I expect to be back at Klamath this spring.
redrock--Constitutional Terrorist
p.s. Anita and the girls say 'Hi!"
Bump and thanks for the flag.
For the kind of punishment you'd invite?
You'd be a damned fool NOT to be cautious; as you'll be taken out without a glove being laid.
Are we speaking the same language now?
The power of force I speak of isn't in your size, ya big ox.
"I guess you've never seen me, or you'd never have gone off on that track."
Maybe, maybe not; you've not seem *me* either, eh?
Ask around to those who know...
Understand I had a better idea; than the absurdity of two supposed allies engaging in mortal combat.
I would've MUCH rather preferred thinking of us, ALL of us, a "team" of sorts; same side, same cause, same enemies.
~Rather than base adversaries.
Geshhhh.
I have been very close to this, having some good friends in the basin and having spent a lot of time over there this summer when they called me after the headgates had been taken.
Each individual is at their own level in terms of dealing with these types of situations. But at some point, all of the talking ends and you either get involved or sit on the sidelines. There are a number of folks on this thread whom I personally know have been involved and I applaud that ... of those, there are several points of view ... all of them valuable and all of them adding to the direction this thing is taking ... and that is as it should be. I don't begrudge or belittle any of it, even if it is not exactly what I would do. In the end, as I have said all along, the people there in Klamath will be the ones to decide this is their fight, but it is an extremely important one and one worth getting involved to the hilt on ... I just went to help them and give my hand and back and advise to the equation.
I did not go to the big rally in March of last year because I told my friends then ... as much as I hoped it would make a difference (and getting in excess of 20,000 people there to protest the ruling and having all the pols present was a fantastic and monumental achievement), I did not believe that anything short of those farmers standing up and saying no and exercising their property rights in the face of this tyranny was going to make a difference. The loggers got no where with "official" protests except a ruined industry and hundreds and thousands of ruined careers, families and lives. Entire communities were dessimated, albeit at a somewhat slower rate.
So, when some of those in Klamath I know called me and indicated they had taken the headgates in July, I immediately voted with my feet and acted on my own conviction in the matter ... that is to support those who would stand up directly to this unbelievable tyranical situation ... and that is exactly what it is. Ben, if that makes me an "outside" agitator ... then so be it. I would rather help those people in that valley a few hundred miles from me in Oregon than wait for the same circumstancet to come to my valley over here in Idaho ... and that is exactly what will happen if we allow this precedent to stand and if we do not put a stop to it now. It is ultimately our job, the people, to stop it ... I will not look to any other to stand for me on such a fundamental issue ... I must be willing to stand myself, irrespective of the risk and the outcry.
Despite some of the "talk" on this thread, and in spite inparticular of those having difficulties if anything untoward or not in agreement with Bush's statement is mentioned .... this issue is not about Bush or his political aspirations and positions ... it is about the fundamental rights of those famrers and people in the Klamath Basin. AuntB, you know I love and respect you beyond words ... but I submit that Bush has fewer larger fish to fry than issues like this one, despite the terrorists. In the end, this is why we are fighting the terrorists and he simply MUST belly up to the bar on such issues if that other fight is to have true meaning.
This isssue is about a whole basin/valley full of honest, hard working and patriotic farmers who have committed no crime, who have done no wrong, who have deeded property rights and who are being driven off the land for frivoulous, ill-defined and unconstitutional reasons. Yes, Bush has an obligation to uphold the law, but the PRINCIPLE law is the constitution! Anything that violates that, by Supreme Court ruling is "null and void".
The executive branch is one of three equal branches of government and is expressly tasked with executing the law. If the executive branch knows a law is unconstitutional, it has a duty to refuse to uphold it because it has taken an oath to uphold, defend and protect the constittuion first. This is one of the great safeguards of our Republic that has long since been watered down and cast aside. The judicial and legislative branches have equal obligation to insure that the constitution is protected.
I am hoping and praying for the day when a president, or governors, or the legislature, or the Supreme Court will forget their own self interests, forget their "politcal agenda" and careers and simply DO WHAT IS RIGHT AND CONSTITUTIONAL! I have not witnessed or been involved in an experience that cries out for it more than what is occuring in Klamath.
So, I apologize for going on so much here, but I pray Bush will follow through ... but again, it is his administration that has set the ground rules for the implementation of a frivolous, ill-defined and unconstitutional ruling by a liberal judge. As the executive branch he damn well can refuse to follow it, or set up implementation guidelines that allow for and protect the property rights of those folks there.
To date, I have not seen that. I have seen this fundamental and critical issue to an entire valley full of people bantied about as a politacl football ... or, more likely, a political "hot potatoe" while lives, livelihoods and rights are trampled.
I will be the firs to applaud Bush if he makes a long lasting and forthright difference by upholding these folks deeded rights (and despite my reservations at this date, I am hoping and praying he will) ... but the time for talk in accomplishing that goal long since past. That may sound harsh and too direct ... but if you are a farmer facing the prospect of another year with no income and a lot of expenses that will drive you bankrupt and out of business or if you are an individual who cherishes property rights and self determination regarding your life and livelihood ... that's the reality ... the time for talking is past.
Regards to all ... now I'll stop. I have said far more than I intended.
A rational person such as yourself would suggest precisely what you've asserted; no more, no less.
Nevertheless, there're those who feel the man's less than a year in office is more than enouth time to cure the accumulated ills of many, many years past.
And, fwiw?
That has to be one of the most serious cases of irrational thought I think I may have witnessed to date here, on this crazy board.
Curiously enough?
Those who'd be in need of help the most?
Are coincidentally the same people who're beyond any help of the least.
I can't help but wonder: coincidence or, self-fufilling prophesy?
...whatever the case, they're going to reap the harvest they sow; & without the need for any water a'tall, I might add.
Do you have a link to that please?
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