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To: veronica
Nutballs are people who believe that ad hominem and guilt by association are valid means to rebut assertions. Are you Jewish? If so, then what do you think about this Rabbi's speech is untrue or factually incorrect? I'm not a scholar of the Torah and thus, if you have some information in that regard it would be appreciated. Calling me a nutball or desperate won't cut it.
27 posted on 01/20/2002 9:34:01 AM PST by Demidog
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To: Demidog
This man, who has the audacity to call himself a Rabbi, has so perverted the Torah and has so fabricated a bogus history out of whole cloth that it boggles the mind.
1. There was NOT a mass Aliyah as this Rabbi claims. In fact, there have been many starting with the Aliyah at the time of the Second temple.

Aliyah up to the Arab Conquest

During the time of the Second Temple, there were many immigrants to Eretz Yisrael. Aliyah, mainly of scholars from Babylon, did not cease after the destruction of the Second Temple (70 C.E.). This flow of aliyah ended in 520 when Mar Zutra, descendant of the exilarch in Babylon, settled in Tiberias and was appointed head of the Academy.

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Now this was LONG before any Hertzl, long before any *Zionist* movement, so there is his great lie which makes everything else a lie.
To take his claim that the Torah explicitly forbids a mass aliyah is like saying the sun revolves around the earth. To say that Zionism causes us to forsake our religion and our faith is an insult to any Jew of faith. The man is speaking to individuals who not only are not Jewish, but like most people, have no concept of Judaism except what these derelicts preach...which in ITSELF is forbidden by Torah Law and Mosaic Law.
So you have a man who breaks all the rules of Torah Law telling others that Aliyah is against Torah Law.

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From the Arab Conquest to the Ottoman Conquest

There is little information on aliyah in the next few centuries, the period of the Muslim Conquest (636 - 638). In the 11th century, important arrivals included Solomon ben Judah, from Morocco, head of the Academy in Jerusalem and Ramleh; and the Nasi Daniel beb. Azariah, a scion of the exilarchs of Babylon. In the late 12th century, more Jews from North Africa arrived as a result of the persecutions there.

Persecutions of Jews in Europe also contributed to aliyah. The most important immigration of this wave was that of the "300 French and English rabbis" who went to Eretz Yisrael in 1210-1211. In about 1260, there were more olim from these countries. The most important aliyah in this century was that of Nahmanides in 1267. Since his arrival, settlement is said to have been continuous in Jerusalem.

In the late 13th century, aliyah ceased as a result of the fierce battles between the Crusaders and the Muslims. In the 14th century Jews came from Spain and Germany. A number of Italian Jews arrived in Eretz Yisrael in the 15th century and made their mark on the Jewish community. Immigrants from Mesopotamia, Persia, India, China, Yemen, and North Africa are also mentioned in this century.

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So, we've gotten to the 15th century all without Hertzl. All without losing the faith, because it is the FAITH that Israel is HOME that guides Aliyah. Until you understand that, you will never understand Aliyah. It has nothing to do with politics and EVERYTHING to do with faith.
There have been many more Aliyahs since those days, many more before Hertzl and many after. It will continue because ISRAEL is where the Moschiach will arrive. That is the faith. That is the reason. And Israel will be there when the time comes.

45 posted on 01/20/2002 10:26:10 AM PST by Nix 2
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