Not Yours to Give

personal archives ^ | Provided as courtesy by Charles Starr for Congress

[packrat01]

Fine sentiments, but no one can prove that Crockett said any of this.

If he didn't, he ought to've.

[Taxman]

My thoughts exactly!

Of more importance though, is that we need to elect Representatives and Senators who believe that Crockett's view is correct. If the Constitution does not specifically authorize an expenditure, it ought not be made.

It fairly boggles the mind to imagine how small in numbers of employees and bureaucracies and how few "programs" would exist if the U.S. (and local and state) government(s) followed the Constitution.

Now, my fellow FReepers, that is a vision truly worth fighting for!

[RaceBannon]

Starfan, this is the e-mail I sent you!

[RonDog]

"Here's the problem. The bill above was passed in 1828. Crockett's first term in Congress was the 20th Congress, which served from 27-29. Not only that, as I recall, in the old days there was a lame duck session of Congress months after the election. Anyway, if this vote happened early in '28, and if he said there was a fire several years prior, and that a year after that he was up for re-election, well, the numbers just don't add up.

There were factual errors on almost every point in paragraphs two and three..." - Huck

I think that you are correct, Huck. The author of this famous passage from Crockett's biography seems to have taken considerable liberties - i.e., "artistic license" - in his attempt to communcate the "big picture" of Crockett's political philosophy, and cut quite a few corners with the actual FACTS.

(This approach is perhaps understandable, given the embellishments propagated by Crockett himself. LOL!!!)

From The Texas State Historical Association's "Handbook of Texas Online" :

"...In his 1831 campaign for a third term, Crockett openly and vehemently attacked Jackson's policies and was defeated in a close election by William Fitzgerald.

By this time Crockett's reputation as a sharpshooter, hunter, and yarn-spinner had brought him into national prominence. He was the model for Nimrod Wildfire, the hero of James Kirke Paulding's play The Lion of the West, which opened in New York City on April 25, 1831. Life and Adventures of Colonel David Crockett of West Tennessee was published in 1833 and reprinted the same year under the more accurate title of Sketches and Eccentricities of Colonel David Crockett of West Tennessee. Much of the same material spilled over into the first few issues of a series of comic almanacs published under Crockett's name from 1835 to 1856 that, as a whole, constituted a body of outrageous tall tales about the adventures of the legendary Davy rather than the historical David Crockett.

Building in part upon his growing notoriety, Crockett defeated the incumbent Fitzgerald in 1833 to return to Congress. The following year he published his autobiography, written with the help of Thomas Chilton, A Narrative of the Life of David Crockett of the State of Tennessee, the only work that he actually authored. It was intended to correct the portrayal given by Mathew St. Clair Clarke in Sketches and Eccentricities and to deny Crockett's authorship of that account, which did not bear Clarke's name..."

[RonDog]

All of this is beside the point. The major issue before us is this....

What exactly is a sockdolager ?

For instance, John Wilkes Boothe knew to time his assasination of Lincoln to the line in Our American Cousin....
"You sockdolagizing old mantrap !"
at which burst of pure hilarity the house would be rolling in the aisles, completely distracted.

This issue must be addressed.

80 posted on 1/23/02 3:35 PM Pacific by Tokhtamish

Here is ONE opinion, from http://www.living-history.com/americanleaders/sockdolager.html:

Sockdolager - A Tale Of Davy Crockett

A "sockdolager" is a knock-down blow. This is a newspaper reporter's captivating story of his unforgettable encounter with the old "Bear Hunter" from Tennessee. From The Life of Colonel David Crockett, by Edward S. Ellis (Philadelphia: Porter & Coates, 1884)

---

CROCKETT was then the lion of Washington. I was a great admirer of his character, and, having several friends who were intimate with him, I found no difficulty in making his acquaintance. I was fascinated with him, and he seemed to take a fancy to me.

I was one day in the lobby of the House of Representatives when a bill was taken up appropriating money for the benefit of a widow of a distinguished naval officer. Several beautiful speeches had been made in its support -- rather, as I thought, because it afforded the speakers a fine opportunity for display than from the necessity of convincing anybody, for it seemed to me that everybody favored it. The Speaker was just about to put the question when Crockett arose. Everybody expected, of course, that he was going to make one of his characteristic speeches in support of the bill. He commenced:

"Mr. Speaker

-- snip --

...As he came up I spoke to the man. He replied politely, but, as I thought, rather coldly, and was about turning his horse for another furrow when I said to him: "Don't be in such a hurry, my friend; I want to have a little talk with you, and get better acquainted."

He replied: "I am very busy, and have but little time to talk, but if it does not take too long, I will listen to what you have to say." I began: "Well, friend, I am one of those unfortunate beings called candidates, and --" "'Yes, I know you; you are Colonel Crockett. I have seen you once before, and voted for you the last time you were elected. I suppose you are out electioneering now, but you had better not waste your time or mine. I shall not vote for you again.'

This was a sockdolager... I begged him to tell me what was the matter. "Well, Colonel, it is hardly worthwhile to waste time or words upon it. I do not see how it can be mended, but you gave a vote last winter which shows that either you have not capacity to understand the Constitution, or that you are wanting in honesty and firmness to be guided by it. In either case you are not the man to represent me..."

-- snip --

Note that the date of this popular story is 1884 - almost FIFTY YEARS after Crockett's death. - Ron

From the same website:

"March 6, 1836 - Col Crockett dies along with about 149 others as The Alamo falls
in a predawn assault..."

[RonDog]

Unless that's a different widow. Are there Major General's in the Navy?

Still not sure if Mrs. Brown is the right widow, but HERE is the right "Major General Brown," from

"SWORD OF THE BORDER:
Major General Jacob Jennings Brown, 1775-1828"
by John D. Morris :

---

Jacob Jennings Brown may well be the most successful—yet forgotten—general of his time.  Born into a Pennsylvania Quaker family on the eve of the American Revolution, Brown worked as a Quaker schoolteacher and surveyor and was a pioneer settler of northern New York before serving in the U.S. Army during the War of 1812, eventually rising to the highest command.

Early in the war he commanded the militia defending 200 miles of the New York—Canadian border.  His successful defense of the Lake Ontario naval base at Sackets Harbor in 1813 was rewarded with a regular army commission as brigadier general.  He won more battles against British regular troops than any general in American history, and he was respected by his superiors, his subordinates, and the enemy.  In 1821 Brown became commanding general of the army and advised secretaries of war and presidents on military policy.

Brown helped create a professional army.  As division commander, and later as commanding general, he was instrumental in establishing the staff and command structure that was operational until the 20^th century..."

[Huck]

Awesome stuff, RonDog. Thanks. Be sure to flag me if you find anything else on this subject, on Ellis, or on Horatio Bunce. Best regards to you.

[RonDog]

Here are some EXACT dates, from http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=C000918:

CROCKETT, David, (father of John Wesley Crockett), a Representative from Tennessee; born at the confluence of Limestone Creek and Noli-Chuckey River in the State of Franklin, which a few years later became Greene County, Tenn., August 17, 1786; attended the common schools for a short time; moved to Lincoln County about 1808 and to what is now Gibson County in 1822; commanded a battalion of mounted riflemen under General Jackson in the Creek campaign in 1813 and 1814; member of the State house of representatives 1821-1823; unsuccessful candidate for election in 1825 to the Nineteenth Congress; elected to the Twentieth and Twenty-first Congresses (March 4, 1827-March 3, 1831); unsuccessful candidate for reelection in 1830 to the Twenty-second Congress; elected as an Anti-Jacksonian to the Twenty-third Congress (March 4, 1833-March 3, 1835); unsuccessful candidate for reelection in 1834 to the Twenty-fourth Congress; went to Texas to aid the Texans in their struggle for independence in 1836; joined a band of 186 men in the defense of the Alamo, San Antonio de Bexar, and was among those killed in that battle which terminated on March 6, 1836; his body destroyed by pyre at the Alamo.

[RonDog]

Perhaps the ENTIRE SPEECH that we have been discussing is in error. There is a transcript of a speech allegedly by Crockett posted at:
Colonel Davy Crockett Delivering His Celebrated Speech to Congress on the State of Finances, State Officers, and State Affairs in General

So far, this website from English professor from Towson University Edwin Duncan is the ONLY place that I have found this "broken English" version of Crockett's words.

"The broken fenced state o' the nation, the broken banks, broken hearts, and broken pledges o' my brother Congressman here around me, has riz the boiler o' my indignation clar up to the high pressure pinte, an' therefore I have riz to let off the steam of my hull hog patriotism, without round-about- ation, and without the trimmins. The truth wants no trimmins for in her clar naked state o' natur she's as graceful as a suckin colt i' the sunshine. Mr. Speaker! What in the name o' kill-sheep-dog rascality is the country a- comin' to? Whar's all the honor? no whar! an thar it'll stick! Whar's the state revenue? Every whar but whar it ought to be!

"Why, Mr. Speaker, don't squint with horror, when I tell you that last Saturday mornin' Uncle Sam hadn't the first fip to give to the barbet! The banks suspend payment, and the starving people suspend themselves by ropes! Old Currency is flat on his back, the bankers have sunk all funds in the safe arth o' speculation, and some o' these chaps grinnin' around me are as deep in the mud as a heifer in a horse-pond!

"Whar's the political honesty o' my feller congressmen? why, in bank bills and five acre speeches! Whar's all thar patriotism? in slantendicular slurs, challenges, and hair trigger pistols! Whar's all thar promises? every whar! Whar's all thar perfomances on 'em? no whar, and the poor people bellering arter 'em everywhere like a drove o' buffaloes arter their lazy keepers that, like the officers here, care for no one's stomach, but their own etarnal intarnals!

"What in the nation have you done this year? why, waste paper enough to calculate all your political sins upon, and that would take a sheet for each one o' you as long as the Mississippi. and as broad as all Kentucky. You've gone ahead in doin' nothin' backwards, till the hull nation's done up. You've spouted out a Mount Etny o' gas, chawed a hull Allegheny o' tobacco, spit a Niagary o' juice, told a hail storm o' lies, drunk a Lake Superior o' liquor, and all, as you say, for the good o' the nation; but I say, I swar, for her etarnal bankruptification!

"Tharfore, I move that the ony way to save the country is for the hull nest o' your political weasels to cut stick home instanterly, and leave me to work Uncle Sam's farm, till I restore it to its natural state o' cultivation, and shake off these state caterpillars o' corruption. Let black Dan Webster sittin there at the tother end o' the desk turn Methodist preacher; let Jack Calhoun settin' right afore him with his hair brushed back in front like a huckleberry bush in a hurrycane, after Old Hickory's topknot, turn horse- jockey. Let Harry Clay sittin' thar in the corner with his arms folded about his middle like grape vines around a black oak, go back to our old Kentuck an' improve o' lawyers an' other black sheep. Let old Daddy Quincy Adams sittin' right behind him thar, go home to Massachusetts, an' write political primers for the suckin' politicians; let Jim Buchanan go home to Pennsylvania an' smoke long nine, with the Dutchmen. Let Tom Benton, bent like a hickory saplin with ull rollin', take a roll home an' make candy "mint drops" for the babies:--for they've worked Uncle Sam's farm with the all-scratchin' harrow o' rascality, 'till it's as gray as a stone fence, as barren as barked clay, and as poor as as turkey fed on gravel stones!

"And, to conclude, Mr. Speaker, the nation can no more go ahead under such a state o'things, than a fried eel can swim upon the steam o' a tea kettle; if it can, then take these yar legs for yar hall pillars."

These are certainly NOT the words used by the "David Crockett" in OUR version of "Not Yours to Give." What gives?

[Huck]

I ordered three Crockett books from the library last night. I am trying to get a copy of the Ellis book, too.

[RonDog]

Good idea!
I found the "broken English" speech quoted again from a source called THE LIFE OF A FRONTIERSMAN. Not sure if that is the title of a Crockett biography, or not.

"...After Polly Crockett's death in 1815 he married Elizabeth Patton, a widow and helped her raise her three children. He was commander of a battalion in the Creek Indian War in 1813-1814. In describing his fellow frontiersmen fighting the Indians, he said, "...the enemy fought with savage fury, and met death with all its horrours, without shrinking or complaining: not one asked to be spared, but fought as long as they could stand or sit. " He became a local magistrate. He was proud to say his decisions"…were never appealed from, and if they had been they would have stuck like wax, as I gave my decisions on the principles of common justice and honesty between man and man, and relied on natural born sense, and not on law, learning to guide me; for I had never read a page in a law book in all my life." Then he stood for the state legislature of Tennessee and went on to run for Congress where his motto was "Be always sure you are right, then go ahead." His most celebrated speech was on the national "State of Affairs:"

"The broken fenced state o' the nation, the broken banks, broken hearts, and broken pledges o' my brother Congressman here around me, has riz the boiler o' my indignation clar up to the high pressure pinte, an' therefore I have riz to let off the steam of my hull hog patriotism, without round-about- ation, and without the trimmins. The truth wants no trimmins for in her clar naked state o' natur she's as graceful as a suckin colt i' the sunshine. Mr. Speaker! What in the name o' kill-sheep-dog rascality is the country a- comin' to?" ...

[jo6pac]

It looks to me as if the story is at least based on fact, and that Crockett's actions reflect the sentiment in the story.

That's my thought, too.

[jo6pac]

You've done some excellent research.

I appreciate it - this Crockett story has long been a favorite of mine.

[jo6pac]

Do you have a link to the source on the web?

Bottom right corner.

[jo6pac]

It appears the relief for the widow PASSED, even though in the story it says:

"The bill was put upon its passage, and, instead of passing unanimously, as was generally supposed, and as, not doubt, it would but for that speech, it received but few votes, and of course was lost.

Unless that's a different widow. Are there Major General's in the Navy?

I think we've got the wrong widow in Mrs. Brown. He also voted against Stephen Decatur's widow. Feb 11,1831 debate)

The author seems to be combining the two incidents.

[Huck]

Cool. I was just looking into the Decatur debate, and I ran across this entry in the record, which, while unrelated, I imagine you fellers would appreciate:

Saturday, Feb. 12th
Soon after the House met, the eclipse of the sun created considerable gloom within the hall, (although far from being dark enough to require candles), an adjournment was moved by Mr. Dwight, and was carried--yeas 86, nays 77.

--Register of Debates, House of Representatives, 21th Congress, 2nd Session

[Huck]

More on Susan decatur here:

http://www.decaturhouse.org/pressroom/timeline.htm

[Huck]

Stephen Decatur here:

http://www.zweb.com/parpro/Decatur.html

[Huck]

He voted against relief for James Monroe on the 1st of Feb, too.

[Huck]

Check out the debate on Fuel for the poor of the city. It is not directly related, but is philosohically related. See the argument of Tucker from S Carolina. Note that Crockett voted for the resolution:

This stuff is so interesting. It paints such a vivid picture. There is a snowstorm in the Capital. A resolution is made to give some spare wood from the Capital to the poor, who are burning any wood they can find. The S. Carolinian rises in opposition, on strict constructionist grounds. Then, word is passed that the impeachment of a judge is underway. Short discussion on what to do. Run right over or vote on the resolution? How about we lay the resolution on the table (procedural speak for officially puting it aside without consideration). That is rejected, a vote is taken, the resoltution passes. They poor get the wood, and they move on to Judge Peck's impeachment. I could read this stuff all day (hell, it's 6am on Saturday as I write!)