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Child shot in head by off duty cop during school demo
Fox news

Posted on 02/06/2002 11:44:28 AM PST by inflorida

This just reported on Fox news. A 10 year old child in Pennsylvania was accidentally shot in the head during a school demonstration by an off-duty cop.
The child is expected to survive.


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KEYWORDS: banglist; dailyprayer; donutwatch
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To: inflorida
SPIN CONTROL is taking over!
Note the change in title: the GUN did it!
Here is the latest UPDATE from http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/local/2621947.htm:
Officer's gun goes off during show-and-tell

Inquirer Staff Writers

Shortly after a Philadelphia policewoman passed around a loaded handgun among students during show-and-tell at a Germantown charter school, the weapon accidentally discharged yesterday afternoon, grazing a 10-year-old boy in the face.

The student, fourth grader James Reeves, received five stitches at Temple University Children's Hospital and returned home last night in good condition, while police and school officials continued their investigation into the incident at Imani Education Circle Charter School in Germantown.

The officer, Vanessa Carter-Moragne, 39, a five-year veteran assigned to the Ninth Police District in Center City, was removed from street duty and is now the subject of an Internal Affairs investigation, police said.

Acting Commissioner Sylvester M. Johnson called the officer's actions "unheard of and inexcusable."

"We're grateful that the injuries were not more serious. . . . It's fortunate that no one got killed today," Johnson said. "I cannot give you a logical explanation for Officer Vanessa Carter-Moragne's poor judgment."

Philadelphia Police Capt. Edward Chiodetti said that about 3 p.m., the officer went to the school to pick up her son and was interacting with the students in the boy's classroom. Chiodetti said the children first wanted to see her badge, which she displayed, and then asked to see her weapon, a 9 mm Glock semiautomatic.

Johnson said the officer removed the clip from the weapon and then passed the gun among the children.

Carter-Moragne "allowed the children to handle it," Johnson said. "When she attempted to place the magazine back into the Glock, her gun accidentally discharged."

Even if a clip, which contains the bullets, is removed, a round can remain in the chamber unless it is taken out separately.

"You never know. You can pull the clip out and there's one in the chamber," Johnson said.

A girl who was among the 23 children in the classroom at the time of the incident, 9-year-old Aatiqah Johnson, said: "Everybody was passing it around."

The weapon eventually was returned to the officer.

Aatiqah said there was a bang, and then she saw blood.

"She accidentally pulled the trigger," Aatiqah said as she was leaving school holding hands with her mother, Melita Johnson.

Authorities said the officer most likely pulled the trigger as she attempted to insert the clip back into the grip.

Johnson said the bullet hit the floor and a fragment ricocheted and grazed James Reeves' right cheek.

Other students said they were told to return to their rooms after the gun went off as police descended on the campus on the 5600 block of Greene Street.

Johnson said officers are trained to never take their weapons to a school or use a gun during a demonstration. Instead, Johnson said, the department advises to use pictures or videos.

Imani principal Francine Fulton said that the school encouraged parents to participate in such activities and that the school was aware of the demonstration. Fulton declined to discuss the matter further.

Johnson said the demonstration was not coordinated through the Police Department. Officials said arrangements had been made for counselors to speak with children at the school today.

Throughout the afternoon yesterday, concerned parents arrived at the school to pick up their children. Many of the parents had heard of the incident from news reports or from friends and already knew that their own children were fine.

Tim Williams, whose son Armani is in kindergarten, said he wanted to know more about what happened.

"I was relieved to find out that it was an off-duty officer and not another student," Williams said. Still, he was concerned about a gun being brought into a classroom. The whole situation, he said, "was too close for comfort."

Another parent who rushed to the school, Rhoshanna Morgan, picked up her first grader, Nadirah, 6.

Morgan said that she learned of the discharge from relatives who work at the school and that she hoped future show-and-tell programs would be safer.

"I just hope all the children would be safe," Morgan said.

The incident came five days after an off-duty school district police officer who was working as a part-time school-bus driver came under investigation when students from Imani and another charter school told their parents he threatened them with a gun.

Police said that officer, who at the time was driving a school bus, stopped on the route after school to calm unruly children. The officer, whose name was not released, hollered at the kids to sit down and be quiet and made reference to his gun. He was not charged, but the matter remained under investigation.


Barbara Boyer's e-mail address is bboyer@phillynews.com.

Inquirer staff writer Robert Moran contributed to this article.


441 posted on 02/07/2002 10:16:11 AM PST by RonDog
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To: All; harpseal; eva; SauronOfMordor; tracer; XeniaSt; Travis McGee; Constitutional Patriot...
The folks at Philadelphia's News Radio KYW must not have gotten the politically correct "talking points" yet.
THEY are still running with the ORIGINAL "gun-dropping moron" story, from yesterday, at http://www.kyw.com/now/story/0,1597,328490-406,00.shtml:
Bullet Grazes Student

Philadelphia, PA
Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 10:33 PM ET

(AP) A 10-year-old boy was grazed in the right cheek by a bullet that apparently discharged Wednesday afternoon when an off-duty police officer conducting a school demonstration dropped her gun, officials said.

The child, James Reeves, was taken by ambulance to Temple University Children's Medical Center and treated for a graze wound to the cheek before being released about three hours after the incident, spokeswoman Jennifer McGowan said. "I am stunned. This is the first time I can recall something like this happening," acting police commissioner Sylvester Johnson said.

Officer Vanessa Carter-Morange, 39, who has been on the force for 5 1/2 years, was reassigned to desk duty pending an investigation. Johnson declined to discuss possible disciplinary action but acknowledged that she could lose her job.

Carter-Morange's own child was among the 23 fourth-graders in the class shortly before 3 p.m. at the Imani Education Circle Charter School in the city's Oak Lane section.

As part of a demonstration, Carter-Morange was showing the gun and magazine clip to the class. She had just put the clip back in the gun when she dropped the weapon, principal Francine Fulton said. The gun discharged, and the bullet ricocheted off the floor and hit the child, she said.

Fulton did not know if the gun discharged when it hit the floor or when the officer retrieved it, and would not say whether the officer was in uniform.

"I'm not sure what kind of demonstration it was," said Sgt. Roland Lee, a Philadelphia police department spokesman. Officers conducting programs in schools might carry a gun, but shouldn't pull it out, he said.

The charter school, which is run by a community board of directors, was cordoned off Wednesday afternoon and treated as a crime scene as parents arrived to pick up their children.

Shalawn Edwards received a call telling her to pick up her daughter, Seani, who is in first grade. "I was really frightened. I didn't know what to think," she said.

Tim Williams rushed to the school to pick up his son Armani, a kindergartner who typically has after-school activities until about 6 p.m., after he heard about the shooting on the news. "It's too close for comfort," he said.

Children from the same school were involved in an incident Friday in which a substitute bus driver allegedly threatened unruly students, saying he had a weapon and ordering them to keep quiet. Police later stopped the bus and found the 58-year-old driver with a 9 mm semiautomatic gun.

The driver, who had a permit for the weapon and apparently did not brandish it, was questioned by police but not charged.

Watch Eyewitness News for an update on this story.
Associated Press

442 posted on 02/07/2002 10:27:16 AM PST by RonDog
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To: LoneGOPinCT; Woodstock; TwakeIDFins; Double Tap; gridlock; supercat; VA Advogado; TC Rider; Eaker
THIS PART - which seems rather important - is now MISSING from the Philadelphia Inquirer's version of the events:
"...As part of a demonstration, Carter-Morange was showing the gun and magazine clip to the class. She had just put the clip back in the gun when she dropped the weapon, principal Francine Fulton said. The gun discharged, and the bullet ricocheted off the floor and hit the child, she said.

Fulton did not know if the gun discharged when it hit the floor or when the officer retrieved it..."


443 posted on 02/07/2002 10:33:25 AM PST by RonDog
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To: SauronOfMordor
LOL - my compliments on post #433.

NRA instructors, I've found, are often just about as smug and ignorant as a lot of LEOs are. Hate to break it to them, but the NRA is far from being the end-all and be-all of firearms.

- Jefferson Adams, former NRA Life Member, resigned.

444 posted on 02/07/2002 10:37:24 AM PST by Jefferson Adams
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To: All
Perhaps a few knowledgeable folks here can provide the nice reporter with the Phladelphia Inquirer with some TECHNICAL advice about firearm safety, Glock technology, etc?
(Hint. Hint. FReep time?)
Barbara Boyer's e-mail address is bboyer@phillynews.com.

445 posted on 02/07/2002 10:38:39 AM PST by RonDog
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To: AnnaZ; Mercuria; HangFire; gc4nra; Mr.B goes to Washington; StoneColdGOP
Newspaper reporter EDUCATION time - i.e. "FReep 'em" request!
446 posted on 02/07/2002 10:41:29 AM PST by RonDog
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To: RonDog
I have a stong suspicion that this "officer" was letting the children handle a loaded gun. She supposedly took the mag out, showed the gun and mag to the kids and then dropped it while inserting the mag into the gun.

If she had properly unloaded the weapon, it could not have fired when it hit the floor or when she picked it up because there would not be a cartridge in the chamber at that point.

447 posted on 02/07/2002 10:41:57 AM PST by Double Tap
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To: RonDog
(Hint. Hint. FReep time?)

While you're at it, inform her that pistols don't have "clips," they have "magazines." Sheesh.

448 posted on 02/07/2002 10:44:59 AM PST by Jefferson Adams
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To: Eva
I take it that you are from Phila . I was trying to recall another incident involving a Phila. police woman who was such a bad driver that she was involved in several traffic accidents, wrecked several police cars and even ran over and killed another officer.

Yes I am from Philly and I don't recall the story .. I guess because there are so many stories like that ..

With that said .. not all Philly Police officers are idiots .. but there are a few out there that give the rest a bad name ...

449 posted on 02/07/2002 10:51:14 AM PST by Mo1
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To: RonDog
Johnson said the officer removed the clip from the weapon and then passed the gun among the children. Carter-Moragne "allowed the children to handle it," Johnson said. "When she attempted to place the magazine back into the Glock, her gun accidentally discharged." Even if a clip, which contains the bullets, is removed, a round can remain in the chamber unless it is taken out separately.

Clearly this officer was passing a sidearm with a round in the chamber that was ready to fire. Whatever happened to passing a firearm with the action open so that the person recieving it can verify that it is empty and in a "safe" condition. The officer in question at minimum needs to be facing reckless endangerment charges. Now to the best of my knowledge the action on a Glock will not fire just because it was dropped. This makes about as much sense as someone stating that they dropped some ammunition and it went off causing the bullet to kill or wound someone. Ask anyone who has ever seen ammunition in a fire and they will tell you that is total crap.

Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown

450 posted on 02/07/2002 10:51:36 AM PST by harpseal
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To: RonDog
Newspaper reporter EDUCATION time - i.e. "FReep 'em" request!

Best of luck .. The Phladelphia Inquirer needs all the help they can get .. on this and many other subjects

451 posted on 02/07/2002 10:54:21 AM PST by Mo1
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To: LoneGOPinCT
But, then again, this story did not make national, top-story news, despite the fact that it was an injury shooting at a school. Other one-injury school shootings, and even some non-injury school shootings, have made national, top-story news. Why do you suppose that is? I have an answer, and it's because when peasants misuse guns, it's newsworthy, but when the lords do, it isn't.
452 posted on 02/07/2002 11:04:54 AM PST by coloradan
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To: Jefferson Adams
"- Jefferson Adams, former NRA Life Member, resigned."

The NRA is the end-all and be-all of firearms. It depends on what class you go to.

453 posted on 02/07/2002 11:08:49 AM PST by Shooter 2.5
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To: illbenice
"He had a loaded gun pointed in some ones direction?"

All guns are loaded.
Stick with that assumption, and you'll never do what this dumb*ss cop did.

454 posted on 02/07/2002 11:14:29 AM PST by Redbob
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To: Mo1
This was the most stupid thing that has made the news recently. Fox did a decent job of reporting what happened, but the local 3 agitprop outlets didn't show anything but several screaming faces about "guns in school". What is truly amazing was this "phantom rash" that some kids at school recieved" (could be something,could be suggestibility) got more time than

(A) the Glock incident,the kid is going to be ok, but IMHO the LEO messed up bad, real bad, and

(B) The memorial service and committal service for Officer Dennis McNamara, of the Upper Darby Police, who was shot during a routine traffic stop last week by a former Pagan MC gang member.

The non-reporting of the funeral was IMHO, a slap by the news media at a fine officer, and a good friend. Fortunately, the service was on the cable network from UDHS (fortunately covered) otherwise you got 1-2 mins of coverage maximum.

Keep the Faith for Freedom

MAY GOD BLESS AND PROTECT THIS HONORABLE REPUBLIC

Greg

455 posted on 02/07/2002 11:23:12 AM PST by gwmoore
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To: XeniaSt
"If there was a round in the chamber most pistols will fire."

Not so.
Pistols like Smith semi's, for example, have magazine disconnectors, so if there's no magazine, the gun won't fire.
Of course, a pistolsmith can usually correct this design "deficiency" pretty easily.

456 posted on 02/07/2002 11:25:05 AM PST by Redbob
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To: harpseal;XeniaSt
All guns are always loaded always is a way of stating that one should always treat every gun as though it were loaded and ready to fire until one has the action open and verifying that the chamber is empty.

I tend to go beyond that in how I instruct people. My view is not to treat "every gun as though it were loaded and ready to fire", but instead to have the mindset that it IS loaded. Even after you have personally ejected the mag, and ejected the round from the chamber, and visually inspected the action as being empty, as far as I and anybody I teach is concerned, the gun IS still loaded and MAY NOT be waved around or pointed at people. It's a subtle and maybe zen-like distinction, but I feel that it's an important mind-set to have

Because if you handle guns long enough and often enough, one day you WILL have in your hands a loaded gun that you could have sworn was unloaded. Someday you WILL be handling a gun and will be distracted or not have complete attention on what you're doing. If you continue to handle any firearm AS a LOADED firearm, then even when you screw up, (and I use "when" rather than "if" deliberately) you are much less likely to kill somebody by accident.

457 posted on 02/07/2002 11:35:21 AM PST by SauronOfMordor
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Comment #458 Removed by Moderator

To: Mo1
The story about the police woman was specificly referring to a group of women who were hired under an affirmative action program, about eight years ago, I think. The talk show host was very critical of the capabilities of these women because they did not have to meet the usual requirements of new officers and even after several failures these women were kept on the force.
459 posted on 02/07/2002 12:03:11 PM PST by Eva
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To: SauronOfMordor
If you continue to handle any firearm AS a LOADED firearm, then even when you screw up, (and I use "when" rather than "if" deliberately)...

I was involved in a thread on another message board (The Firing Line Great place for all kinds of gun talk) where we were detailing all of our NDs.

One guy said that there are basically two kinds of people. Those who have already had an ND, and those who will.

I had mine a few years back. I was following the other three rules, and only managed to take a small chunk out of a concrete wall in my garage.

It only takes one ND to scare the poop outta ya, and give you some serious religion concerning gun handling.

460 posted on 02/07/2002 12:17:45 PM PST by Christopher
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