The Black Roots of Slavery

FrontPageMagazine.com ^ | June 7, 2001 | Michael Tremoglie

[billbears]

Of course, traitors should be arrested, and their descendents should thank their lucky stars there were shown mercy instead of a Confederate gallows as so many loyal US citizens of the south were shown, without trial or rule of law

LOL!! First it didn't happen at all according to your slam on Charles Adams. Now it did happen and they deserved it. Mind you this was with the Tyrant's suspension of habeas corpus(which he did before Davis) and eliminating the Maryland constitution along with the rule of law . This was also BEFORE the legislators even voted!! What? his majesty was omniscient and knew how the legislators were going to vote? Even the Maryland state archives admit the vote would have been close but still unsure as to which way the vote for secession would have gone

But somehow according to you, it is even treasonous to bring bills, whether it be for secession or budgets, up at all in state houses. And I'm still waiting on those 'thousands' that died by hanging. Now it's 'many'. What's the story or is that one going to change again too?

[DonkeyHodee]

Mind you this was with the Tyrant's suspension of habeas corpus(which he did before Davis

Habeus Corpus never existed as a right under law to all men. Ever. That was due to the barbarism of slavery. It is to be noted in Robert Toombs last speech in Congress that this fact is particularly cited; that the advent of Habeus Corpus in the South would be the end of slavery.

The South was barbarous and cruel, and long before the war all the mails were intercepted and censored (no free speech), and at the start of the war it was Davis who ordered that all telegraph communications be monitored. It was the North that maintained free speech, though it is true, primarily in the slave states that did not rebel, that a heavier hand was required to win the war. You can't make an omelette with breaking eggs, but the widespread terror in the southern applachins that came along with the burnings and crucifixtions was distinctly southern.

Intercepting all mail in the south was actually not hard, as so few southerners were actually literate. The record of the Lincoln administration is on open view, that of the Davis administration is not as the affairs of the Confederacy were conducted by a handfull of tyrants in privacy. The fact that you grew up with such an unbalanced picture of the truth is largely due to this and the lying and deceitful work of the Confederate Southern Democrats and their farcical party line; the line that Woodrow Wilson brought to perfection and which you tout in mindless regurgitation of spume and dreck. I would post more on this, but actually quoting southern legitimate southern history can get you posting rights removed faster than a cat on hot skillet. A real edge you have in spreading false and malicious untruths about the history of the United States and the scurrilous, barbaric and ignorant traitor trash that attempted to overthrow the government.

Have some self respect and dare to read the truth at least once before you leave this world. You owe it to yourself and your heritage.

[WhiskeyPapa]

LOL!! First it didn't happen at all according to your slam on Charles Adams. Now it did happen and they deserved it. Mind you this was with the Tyrant's suspension of habeas corpus(which he did before Davis) and eliminating the Maryland constitution along with the rule of law . This was also BEFORE the legislators even voted!!

Had President Lincoln been able to arrest the other traitors in the so-called seceded states, most of whom embarked on their treason before he took office, it might have avoided a four year bloodbath.

President Lincoln was acting in accordance with his oath when he had the Maryland legislators arrested. However, unlike the 40 loyal Unionists in Gainesville, Texas in October, 1862, or dozens of loyal East Tennesseans, who remained true to the old flag, the Maryland legislators were released unharmed. The loyal Texans and Tennesseans were hanged--simply for being loyal to Old Glory.

Walt

[billbears]

President Lincoln was acting in accordance with his oath when he had the Maryland legislators arrested

You know sometimes I see a glimmer of hope then you come up with that. Where in the name of all that is good does the Constitution allow the POTUS to order the arrest of individuals BEFORE they even commit a crime (not that secession was one, but we'll not go there for the moment). What? lincoln's now a mindreader?

[WhiskeyPapa]

President Lincoln was acting in accordance with his oath when he had the Maryland legislators arrested

You know sometimes I see a glimmer of hope then you come up with that. Where in the name of all that is good does the Constitution allow the POTUS to order the arrest of individuals BEFORE they even commit a crime (not that secession was one, but we'll not go there for the moment). What? lincoln's now a mindreader?

I posted a while back Lincon's letter on the suspension of Habeas Corpus. In it, he makes the point that Robert E. Lee had been at one time within the power of the government. Had he been arrested before he took up arms against the lawful government, things might be a lot better today.

Conspiracy to commit a crime can be a reason for arrest, and treason is against the law. Lincoln acted properly in arrresting the Maryland legislators, just as he acted with malice towards none and charity for all in allowing them to be released.

Walt

[billbears]

Conspiracy to commit a crime can be a reason for arrest, and treason is against the law

With that, I could possibly, and I mean possibly!! see the arrest of someone that introduced the bill of secession into the house. But that is an extremely, extremely weak argument considering that no one was arrested when the same exact thing happened in the state of Massachusetts a little over 50 years prior. That aside, the issue arises does the state have the right to vote on any bill put before the house. Since the 14th Amendment was not in place yet(which is the ONLY way Constitutionally the federal government could even attempt to stop a vote) the President had no ground to stand on Constitutionally.

No, this was just another example of him overstepping his boundries

[lawdog]

You've "given" who freedom ? My relatives, for generations fought and died for this country.They were southerners, so their sacrifices don't count? You haven't "given me" squat.

[WhiskeyPapa]

With that, I could possibly, and I mean possibly!! see the arrest of someone that introduced the bill of secession into the house. But that is an extremely, extremely weak argument considering that no one was arrested when the same exact thing happened in the state of Massachusetts a little over 50 years prior.

People get away with heinous crimes all the time. Nothing that happened in Massachusetts matched what happened in the so-called seceded states in any case.

The secessionists loved the idea of Lincoln in the White House. They figured him to be even more weak and indecisive than their puppet Buchanan.

They figured wrong. Lincoln very skillfully led the nation through crisis after crisis and he brought the ship of state home safely at last.

Lincoln always read the people very carefully. He knew what they would stand for and what they wouldn't.

As soon as he took office he was importuned by the aboltionists to free all the slaves, since the slave holders had abdicated their rights as United States citizens. He refused. One reason he did so was because the great mass of volunteers swelling the ranks of the Union armies came forward to fight to Union, not to free the slaves. They basically cared nothing for the slaves, and Lincoln knew that. But as soon as he saw that the national mood would accept it, he did issue the emancipation proclamation.

He waited until after the 1862 elections to relieve McClellan, because McClellan was popular. He tested the waters on black suffrage, and in his very last speech he came out for supporting voting rights for blacks.

He took a low-key line on Fort Sumter, and sure enough, the secessionists bit--fired on the fort-- and thereby galvanized northern opinion in a way that had been likened to the effect of the attack on Pearl Harbor.

I often say that Lincoln's greatest accomplishment was in the area of civil rights. Maybe that is why so many find him so objectionable. They'd like to wind the clock back.

Walt

[billbears]

Nothing that happened in Massachusetts matched what happened in the so-called seceded states in any case.

You're right there!!

1)A bill of secession in Massachusetts legally introduced and voted on, passing the lower house with no interference by the federal government

2)A bill of secession in Maryland not even able to be introduced before the POTUS takes it upon himself to arrest those that would vote on said bill

You're right. I can see the difference

[WhiskeyPapa]

2)A bill of secession in Maryland not even able to be introduced before the POTUS takes it upon himself to arrest those that would vote on said bill

Thanks for pointing this out. It looks like Lincoln hit the ground running as chief executive.

Walt

[WhiskeyPapa]

1)A bill of secession in Massachusetts legally introduced and voted on, passing the lower house with no interference by the federal government

What's your source for this datum?

I know when South Carolina threatened to even pass a nullification bill, President Jackson vowed to bring the federal army to S.C. And in a perhaps apocryphal story, Jackson promised to "hang the first man I can catch from the first tree I can find!"

South Carolina made fresh plans, and struck when they perceived a chance at greater success. But Lincoln proved just as tough a nut to crack as Old Hickory.

Walt

[wtc911]

No such thing as "white (muslim) arabs. Arabs are not white. If one comes across the occassional blond or blue-eyed arab it just means that someone partied with someone from another part of the globe sometime in the past. There are of course white muslims.

[wtc911]

Europeans in America turned to Africa for free labor after too many native americans were crushed by the strain of the labor that was expected of them. A supply of more reliable beasts of burden was needed. Ireland couldn't provide enough (although Cromwell tried his best). Africa became the source in spite of the logistics primarily due to the existing muslim-led trade.

[wardaddy]

I agree.

[stainlessbanner]

If you look at Lee's intent, it was not conspiring against the federal government. He did not plan to overthrow the feds by marching on DC! Lee went home to protect his family and statemen. Hardly a treasonous act.

Lincoln acted properly in arrresting the Maryland legislators, just as he acted with malice towards none and charity for all in allowing them to be released.

This statement sure reminds me of a dictator. Ask the Maryland legislators how chariable being arrested and not charged was!

[Virginia-American]

Thing that blows me away is all the American Negroes who take Arabic/Muslim names, when the Muslims are still enslaving blacks

[DonkeyHodee]

On the contrary, were it not for the money and legal system of the north, you might very well have only the traditional poverty and illiteracy of your ancestors. The fact is so obvious that it is a classic near hysterical response of the old south to live in absolute denial of it. Given the guality of life in the old south, I can't blame you, but you have come far enough now to give up the nonsense.

[DonkeyHodee]

Where in the name of all that is good does the Constitution allow the POTUS to order the arrest of individuals BEFORE they even commit a crime

It is a crime to plot to attempt to overthrow the government, never burning railroad bridges. Maryland's of minority of landed and politically powerful-through-apportionment flesh mongers had done just that the year before. The reason most of them were over the river is that they had been caught at it and had to run away. The reason they didn't sneak back to vote is my Great Great granddaddy was waiting for them a bayonet. God Bless him. Damn the traitors.