ERIC VOEGELIN: What is Right by Nature?

book | 1978 | Eric Voegelin

[cornelis]

EV speaks of a "dominance" when the law of the polis is the only law that matters, (as it appears to be the case in Aristotle, since all the terminology concerns itself only with the justice of the polis--and yet there is also justice of arrangements of other kinds). The dominance of a political justice established by the law of the polis obliterates the justice that extends beyond the justice of the polis to that which is eternal and immutable, as opposed to that which is changeable. Why? If you grant preminence to the law (nomos) of the polis (“the dominance of the politikon”) there is nothing to check what we understand as “positive law” The law of the polis is then the only arena wherein arbitrary law arises against it. The dominance of the politikon is when the law of the polis is itself right by nature. It is law no longer accountable to anything else. Nor is it positive law, which only arises in a situation where the law of the polis is no longer preeminent.

That's my take, so far.

[cornelis]

I don't know the reference...do you know where it is?

Phew, you got me! Do you really need it? My guess, the Politics. He speaks of economic partnerships in the first chapter.

[Pistias]

I read some of the Politics, but I don't remember it. I don't know if I need it, but he said we should pay close attention to it...oh well. I guess that's what sweating's all about.

[diotima]

Politics, Book I.8-11 is on business and property.

[cornelis]

We must distinguish between concepts of justice.

Good point. Eric Voegelin does an admirable job of fleshing out the concept of justice in Aristotle.

You might also flag Nebullis, since you take issue with what Nebullis had posted.

[Age of Reason]

The theory is that any student who puts up with this crap to get his sheepskin, will be a good corporate drone.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

"Please, don't immanentize the eschaton."

(very cool, sophisticated intellectual). Every conservative should read The New Science of Politics.

Eric Voegelin site

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Try it again: Eric Voegelin Site

[x]

Worth looking over later, but demands a lot of study and a clear head.

One thing about academics that turned me off were the relentless spatial metaphors that obscured more than they explained. The ideas are deep, but talk of movements of being and permeability to them, amounts more to a jargon than an illumination.

So much of academic language is schematic and leaves us more with a blueprint than the thing itself. That doesn't mean the work is without value by any means, but it's waiting for the writer who can translate it into more immediate terms, perhaps into poetry.

Another question is how closely the Aristotelian model corresponds to actual people. It is an inspiring myth, but how much of it can be realized? And how much does it leave out?

Models based on ideal human types give us an idea of what is desirable and possible, but when we have to understand and cope with actual human beings the pictures we rely on are somewhat different.

To expand the question, how much does our free-market capitalist liberal democracy fulfill and how much does it negate the Aristotelian ideal? Or how much does that ideal fulfill or negate what we have now?

No society can survive without virtue, but self-interest seems to be the lifeblood of ours, or to change the metaphor, virtue and desire are air and water to our society.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Another great Voegelin book on the perils of totalitarianism: Order Science, Politics, and Gnosticism now

[ThinkLikeWaterAndReeds]

Appears that your argument is rather "new age" ie: Arostitle (384-322bc) Taoist texts have discussed this subject from about 5.000bc

[Dumb_Ox]

You don't appear to have been around at the time, but Science, Politics, and Gnosticism was discussed over on the Insights into Totalizing Ideologies thread.

A few more Voegelin FR threads are listed HERE

I've checked out The New Science of Politics and plan to mine it once I've finished Herodotus.

[Dumb_Ox]

I think I learned more Greek in that class than I would have in a Greek language class.

Apparently Voegelin is very well-respected in the Classical Studies journals. An essay I am reading about Herodotus's political thought recommends Voegelin to the reader, and the local university library finally purchased most of Voegelin's CW.

[Dumb_Ox]

Tut-tut.

Are you becoming a philosophical scold? :)

Thanks for posting this excellent interpretative summary of Aristotle. I hope to examine it better in the morning.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

"...Insights on Totalizing Ideologies."

Thanks. You are correct that I was not a regular cyber-surfer on freerepublic.com at that time. Sorry I missed the discussion. There's a dissertation I have lying around here somewhere on approaches to totalitarianism offered by Voegelin, Arendt, and Strauss. I think it was presented at Claremont. Not sure. I'll have to check. Interesting and exotic topic. Depth psychology also has some things to say on the subject. At any rate, totalitarianism seems to function much like a religion. An exhaustive, albeit secular, mythology claiming to explain all of reality through its own categories, symbols, and ideas.