Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: 2banana
Mr. O'Neill claims that we who believe that this country was founded on Christian principles are "wrong." While he is entitled to his opinion, consider some of the facts. Research shows that 54 of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence were Christians,

As was pointed out to me by an alert Freeper, the signers of the Declaration of Independence are NOT considered to be Founding Fathers. It's the signers of the Constitution that are considered to be Founding Fathers. (Look it up in a dictionary.) But you used the small "f" "founders"...and

This is a bit of an academic point...I have no doubt that most of the men who signed the Constitution were also Christian. But the fact that they were Christian does NOT necessarily mean that they intended to "found" the country on "Christian principles." (By the way, you'll have to define what you mean by "Christian principles" by the way. Jesus said very clearly that if one is struck on the cheek, that one should then turn the other cheek, to allow that also to be struck. Is that one of the "Christian principles" upon which the U.S. was "founded"? Or was the U.S. only founded upon the Christian principles that are acceptable to modern-day conservatives?)

Gouveneur Morris was the apparent author of the Constitution,...

Most history books accord James Madison the honor of "Father of the Constitution." (However, it was almost certainly a group effort.)

It is not just the founders who supported Christian principles.

There is a HUGE difference between saying that the United States was "FOUNDED" upon Christian principles, and saying that the founders "SUPPORTED" Christian principles.

Benjamin Franklin (one of 6 signers of both the Constitution AND Declaration of Independence) was most certainly NOT a Christian. Only one month before he died he questioned the divinity of Jesus--which is pretty central to Christianity!!

Thomas Jefferson (principal writer of the Declaration of Independence...invited to the Constitutional Convention, but in France at the time) throughout his life also denied the divinity of Jesus. In fact, he "edited" the Bible to remove ALL references to miracles, including the Resurrection. So Jefferson was a Christian ONLY if one who denies the Resurrection and the divinity of Jesus can be a Christian. Can a Christian deny the divinity of Jesus?

So these two very important men in the founding of our country weren't Christians (unless, again, one can be a Christian even if one questions or denies the divinity of Jesus).

But that's NOT important in deciding whether the U.S. was "founded on Christian principles." To answer that question, one might look at the Treaty of Friendship and Peace with Tripoli, UNAMIMOUSLY signed approved by Senate (in 1796...a mere 20 years after the Declaration of Independence, and a mere 9 years after the Constitution), and signed into law by John Adams (signer of the Declaration of Independence, and second President of the United States):

"As the government of the United States of America is NOT IN ANY SENSE FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION (emphasis added :-)) - as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen (modern translation: Muslims)..."

U.S. not founded on the Christian religion, according to U.S. Congress of 1796

THAT makes it pretty clear--to me, at least--that the Congress of the United States, only approximately 9 years after the signing of the Constitution, was convinced that the U.S. was NOT "founded on the Christian religion."

Mark (personal opinion of Jesus--->good man, probably not divine)

54 posted on 03/15/2002 2:12:12 PM PST by Mark Bahner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]


To: Mark Bahner
It's the signers of the Constitution that are considered to be Founding Fathers.

That's correct.

Jesus said very clearly that if one is struck on the cheek, that one should then turn the other cheek, to allow that also to be struck.

Jesus also made it quite clear that he did not intend to change the law in any way whatsoever. (Matthew 5:17.18) Thus, Jesus's word is not law, it's just a practical how-to guide on attaining salvation.

We are certainly not required to turn the other cheek. However, you'll find that it usually makes sense to consider your adversary's point of view before you get into a fight with him. Also, even if you disagree with his point of view, it pays to go out of your way to make sure you're not being unfair with him. After all, if you fight back, you've pretty much lost your chance ever to convince him and win him over to your side!

62 posted on 03/16/2002 10:51:59 AM PST by Smile-n-Win
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies ]

To: Mark Bahner
Benjamin Franklin (one of 6 signers of both the Constitution AND Declaration of Independence) was most certainly NOT a Christian. Only one month before he died he questioned the divinity of Jesus--which is pretty central to Christianity!!

Only according to some other Christian sects. Unitarians of the time were Christians and did not believe in the divinity of Christ (most of them, some did). John, Abigal and John Quincy Adams were Unitarians. They considered themselves Christians. So did the radical Unitarian feminist,Julia Ward Howe, who wrote these lyrics at the begining of the Civil War:

In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me:
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,
While God is marching on.

Was the woman who wrote the lyrics to The Battle Hymn of the Republic not a Christian? She didn't think so.

65 posted on 03/16/2002 11:37:05 AM PST by LarryLied
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson