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To: Blade
Irrelevant. No Islamic state claims to respect democracy, freedom and rights. Israel, on the other hand, claims to be a democracy That is the favorite methods of bigots who fancy themselves intellectual. They follows a three-step procedure: (i) invent a higher, more stringent standard than is universal, (ii) apply it to the subject of your hate, (iii) show that the subject fails this artificial, often unreachable standard, (iv) reach the conclusion that the subject deserved to be hated.

Well, on FR, you may add (v) get appalled that your opponents stifle "the open dialogue and discussion" when you get caught using the above-described methodology.

So, Blade, you are just disturbed that Israel is not living up to the democratic ideals? You are disturbed because, just like our own one, their democracy could benefit from perfection?

I you continue to care about Israel and its democracy so much, I am afraid Mr. Sobran will count you among the "American Amen corner."

61 posted on 03/21/2002 3:31:43 PM PST by TopQuark
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To: TopQuark; boltfromblue
invent a higher, more stringent standard than is universal

OK, here we go. Where did I say Israel had to be perfect? What was the higher, more stringent “universal standard” that I “invented.” Please be specific.

apply it to the subject of your hate
show that the subject fails this artificial, often unreachable standard
reach the conclusion that the subject deserved to be hated. ,

I did that huh? ...and tell me TP, when did you stop beating your wife?

Let's see. First, you ascribe to me several premises that I do not hold, and then you use these premises to prove – what else? -- that I "hate" my subject. Such is the typical "rebuttal" from a member of the Amen Corner -- logical fallacies, lies, and the stomach punch all rolled into one. You're laughable.

disturbed that Israel is not living up to the democratic ideals?

No, I am not “disturbed” (nice smear term by the way), and certainly don’t hate anybody. Disgusted would be more accurate.

I am disgusted that Israel and Jews gets away with things that NOBODY else could EVER get away with. That's why my hat's off to Joe Sobran. He has the courage to speak out.

Let's consider the roll call: the USS Liberty massacre, Pollard, AIPAC, 100 billion in US foreign aid to Israel, Israeli spy rings on US soil, Israeli foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks, the list just goes on and on and on. In the meantime, most American Jews support liberal democrats, and the few conservative Jews that are out there tend to be staunch Zionists that advocate the interests of Israel over the interests of the United States.

Some say that it's improper to criticize Jews (or any other group) as Jews. It is said that it is only permissible to criticize individuals. Yet when Christians organize in their own country to advance a political agenda, we ALWAYS seem to hear about it, usually from the media and Hollywood, both of which are dominated by Jews. Or, to use Billy Graham's phrase, held in a stranglehold.

Suppose Arab Muslims dominated the Isreali media. Suppose we amended the US Constitution along the lines of the Israeli ethnic-religious model, except with white Christians taking the place of Jews.

Would that “disturb” you? If the answer is yes, you are rank hypocrite.

You are disturbed because, just like our own one, their democracy could benefit from perfection?

Again, I am not “disturbed." I am disgusted . I'm sick of the dishonesty on this topic. You can call me all the names you want now.

66 posted on 03/21/2002 6:57:14 PM PST by Blade
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To: TopQuark
The Israeli claim to being a democracy only reveals their duplicity and hypocrisy. Arabs are much more straightforward and sincere, whether they claim the whole of Israel or not.
93 posted on 03/23/2002 10:18:54 AM PST by boltfromblue
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