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History Isn't on the Palestinians' Side
Opinion Journal ^ | 04/02/2002 | VICTOR DAVIS HANSON

Posted on 04/01/2002 8:07:28 PM PST by Pokey78

Edited on 04/23/2004 12:04:21 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

For all the efforts of our contemporary theorists to harness and sometimes refashion history, the facts of the past belong to no one--and won't go away. Those who conjure it up often discover to their dismay that they themselves are subject to its brutal laws of truth. The Palestinians are fast learning of history's ironies and unintended reminders, as they seek to invoke the past to convince Americans of the righteousness of their present plight.


(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Israel; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 04/01/2002 8:07:29 PM PST by Pokey78
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To: Pokey78,dennisw
bttt
2 posted on 04/01/2002 8:13:44 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: Pokey78; southern federalist; happygrl
btttttt
3 posted on 04/01/2002 8:20:23 PM PST by HockeyPop
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To: Pokey78
It's unfortunate this history lesson will fall on deaf ears. The Us media, European Union and the Arab world live in moral revisionist times. At least the Israeliis and hopefully President Bush will stand up for democracy.
4 posted on 04/01/2002 8:22:44 PM PST by samson1
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To: Pokey78
"We are told that the Palestinians have a long memory of, and reverence for, the past--especially the injustice of 50 years of lost homelands. But Americans are not ahistorical. We remember Sept. 11, and the Palestinians who cheered our dead before being admonished by a terrified Arafat.

For the [ast three decades Palestinian terrorists and their sponsoring brotherhoods have murdered Americans abroad. Palestinians embraced Saddam Hussein's cause and clapped as Scuds plunged into Tel Aviv and blew apart American soldiers in Saudi Arabia. An entrapped Arafat now calls for American succor, but a few months ago scoffed that the U.S. was irrelevant as far as he was concerned. The problem, again, is not that Americans have forgotten Palestinian acts, but that we remember them all too well.

I sure would like to see MSNBC show that clip of Arorats people pigs dancing in the street Sept. 12th every hour with the news.

5 posted on 04/01/2002 8:26:35 PM PST by Liberal Bob
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To: Pokey78
Moammar Gadhafi was a different man after the American air strike proved his military worthless and his person no longer sacrosanct.

I've read this a lot recently, but why do people keep saying it? Didn't he get his revenge over Lockerbie?

6 posted on 04/01/2002 8:29:09 PM PST by untenured
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To: Pokey78
The Palestinians have two things on their side: 1. Euro-leftist oligarchs, primarily the snail-eating Frogs; 2. The dynamite that's strapped there.
7 posted on 04/01/2002 8:29:28 PM PST by Scott from the Left Coast
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To: Liberal Bob
We remember Sept. 11, and the Palestinians who cheered our dead before being admonished by a terrified Arafat.

Obligatory pic of Miss Jihad 2001:


8 posted on 04/01/2002 8:37:05 PM PST by Pokey78
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: Pokey78
I would really like to see an objective chronology of events since 1948. I realize that objectivity is hard to come by in this situation, but I would like to know who was where when, including maps. Also, what about the role the US has played in always supporting Israel? Are we the heavy in the background, allowing Israel to do whatever it wants, as the Arabs claim? Everyone already seems to have taken sides in this conflict and each side gives completely different narratives of the events. I want what Sargeant Friday always used to request, "Just the facts, Ma'am."
10 posted on 04/01/2002 8:48:25 PM PST by Pining_4_TX
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To: Lazarus Long
Another poster did the animation (can't remember who it was).

If we added the moving tongue and audio (AHHALALALALALALALALALA!!), the internet might collapse.

11 posted on 04/01/2002 8:48:38 PM PST by Pokey78
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To: Pokey78
Now that was one awesome essay!
12 posted on 04/01/2002 8:51:37 PM PST by hove
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To: Pokey78
September 11 was a massive suicide bombing.

There is no difference between the what the PLO is doing to Israel and what the Saudi suicide bombers did to us on 9/11.

They will not stop until the price they pay is too much to bare.

We haven't even begun to scratch the surface of what we are going to have to do to these subhuman, insane, beasts to make them stop.

13 posted on 04/01/2002 9:01:24 PM PST by Rome2000
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To: Pining_4_TX
There is only one way to interpret acts of terrorism.
14 posted on 04/01/2002 9:02:51 PM PST by paul51
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To: Pokey78
How is it that the British won't give up Gibraltar long after their successful battles against the Spanish fleet?

Actually, Britain is willing to sell them out, but the Gibraltarians desperately want to stay part of England not join Spain in any way.

15 posted on 04/01/2002 9:08:26 PM PST by xm177e2
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To: Pining_4_TX
It is hard to find anyone without a preference spending the energy to write a detailed explanation of history. What I did was read as much as I could find from both sides and compare which side a) used the most factual (provable) data and b) had the best record for telling the truth.

Neither side is innocent. But the Israelis are typically more willing to be self-critical.

Having said that, I've been planning to do a page for my own education, compiling data from both sides and creating the best timeline I can from that...

Until then, here is a chronology that appears to match what I have read from even "objective" writers...

Another really good thread that discusses (thru the thread) the history can be found Here.

Here is another. Some has a spin, but you can tell what is provable and what is opinion...

Here is a Chronology of terrorism I haven't read, but should help you.

If you want to read a book about it, I'd reccommend Bernard Goldburg. He is a Jew, but he has earned the respect of Arabs by not hesitating to find fault with Israel.

I'm sure there's more, and better stuff out there, but in case no one else gets to your question, I hope this helps.

16 posted on 04/01/2002 9:31:47 PM PST by Goldsters
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To: Pokey78, d4now; dennisw; veronica, lent, benf, alouette
Fantastic essay worthy of pulling out your ping lists imho...
17 posted on 04/01/2002 9:40:37 PM PST by monkeyshine
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To: Pokey78
"Palestinian refugees" are a creation and myth of the Arab League. When the UN authorized (in Nov 1947) partition of the British mandate of Palestine and Transjordan into Jewish and Islamic states (Israel and Jordan), the model was not unlike the partition of Indian and Pakistan.

As the independence date in 1948 neared, Jewish residents in Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Transjordan left their homes, businesses and lives, and relocated to the soon-to-be state of Israel. Approximately 283,000 Jews immigrated from parts of the Middle East, and an additional 264,000 came from Egypt and other parts of North Africa.

Likewise, the Islamic residents of Palestine were supposed to leave, and over 725,000 did. The problem was, the Arab League refused to recognize the legitimate State of Israel, and also refused to assimilate the refugees. The Arabs declared war on Israel and lost. After the 1967 "Six Day War" an additional 400,000 Arabs left (primarily from the "West Bank," the "Gaza strip" and the "Golan Heights"). These people too, were rejected by their Islamic kin.

The "Palestinian refugees" are the problem of the Arabs. The Israelis should run the refugees out and let the Arab league - who created them in the first place - deal with the problem.

18 posted on 04/01/2002 9:51:15 PM PST by capitan_refugio
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To: Sabramerican, American in Israel, Nix 2, John Huang2
Bump 2 bump.
19 posted on 04/01/2002 9:51:17 PM PST by monkeyshine
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To: Pining_4_TX
Oops, I meant Bernard Lewis. Sorry.

- A fellow Texan. =]

20 posted on 04/01/2002 10:28:07 PM PST by Goldsters
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To: capitan_refugio
Excellent post. Thank you =]
21 posted on 04/01/2002 10:30:02 PM PST by Goldsters
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To: Goldsters
It's just a thumbnail sketch of the last 54 years, but I hope I got to the point.
22 posted on 04/01/2002 10:34:23 PM PST by capitan_refugio
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To: Rome2000
There is no difference between the what the PLO is doing to Israel and what the Saudi suicide bombers did to us on 9/11.

And, in all probability, the sponsor is the same -- Saddam Hussein.

23 posted on 04/01/2002 10:41:07 PM PST by The Great Satan
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To: capitan_refugio
The article at head is excellent, and if it REALLY covered the history adequately, would leave far less sympathy for the Pallies today, than it does as written.
24 posted on 04/01/2002 10:41:20 PM PST by crystalk
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To: crystalk
bump!
25 posted on 04/01/2002 11:27:21 PM PST by monkeyshine
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Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: Pokey78
...history, rightly or wrongly, is not kind to states that repeatedly attack their neighbors--and lose.
This is all anyone need know about the "Middle East Situation"

Great read, Good post.

27 posted on 04/02/2002 12:17:40 AM PST by M.K. Borders
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To: monkeyshine,monkeyshine; ipaq2000; Lent; veronica; Sabramerican; beowolf; Nachum; BenF; angelo...
Victor Davis Hansen is always very good. I have a book of his where he writes very well of General George Patton. A great account of Patton's WW2 exploits and his mentality. What a giant Patton was!

PINGING!

28 posted on 04/02/2002 3:04:06 AM PST by dennisw
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To: Liberal Bob
Don't hold your breathe..
29 posted on 04/02/2002 3:49:00 AM PST by sheik yerbouty
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To: dennisw;all
Bump for the flavor of the month. If you go to amazon.com and look for his latest, Carnage and Culture, you can get some excerpts from the book. I highly recomend this book, good stuff.
30 posted on 04/02/2002 4:05:54 AM PST by Valin
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To: Pokey78
Not just the palestinians, but Arab culture on the whole has been in decline for a minimum of 100 years (actually it's more like 700). And if you ask me any culture where someone could strap explosives onto their own child and ask them to blow themselves to bits, should be in decline.
This conflict isn't about oil, or the holy land, it's about a conflict between a culture that places the individual above all else (in theory anyway) and a culture which thinks the individual is nothing, and all should surrender to the "will" of Allah. One culture is as successful as any has ever been, and the other is falling into ruin. you decide how this will eventually play out.
31 posted on 04/02/2002 4:26:33 AM PST by tcostell
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To: Pokey78
BTTT. Nice article.
32 posted on 04/02/2002 7:36:32 AM PST by white trash redneck
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To: dennisw
Excellent ping..the dumb reporter on Fox news ,(that told a caller who objected to the term "occupied territories" we could not be bothered with historical context or we would be there all day) ,should read this...

He exibited just pathetic ignorance, typical of the press

33 posted on 04/02/2002 8:41:12 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Pokey78
This is an excellent article..thanks.
Today rumblings of retaliation were heard from Iran and Iraq.
Comments of joining together..to create an oil boycott.
This mentallity of revenge..[Badaahl] is part of Islams psychy..with Israel displaying power and finding sympathy from America..the anger builds in Mosques around the world.
They will try to get even with America and Israel..punish us..because we will not submit to their power..their will.
The war on terrorism is infact, just a war of wills.
Eventually their threats will recieve a response they will never arrise from..its hard to keep fighting when you become atomized!
34 posted on 04/02/2002 9:54:54 AM PST by Light Speed
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To: Pokey78
Good article.
35 posted on 04/02/2002 10:30:12 AM PST by Lent
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To: dennisw
Locator bump... ISP's been dead since last nite....
36 posted on 04/02/2002 10:38:08 AM PST by backhoe
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To: Pining_4_TX
I would really like to see an objective chronology of events since 1948. I realize that objectivity is hard to come by in this situation, but I would like to know who was where when, including maps. Also, what about the role the US has played in always supporting Israel? Are we the heavy in the background, allowing Israel to do whatever it wants, as the Arabs claim? Everyone already seems to have taken sides in this conflict and each side gives completely different narratives of the events. I want what Sargeant Friday always used to request, "Just the facts, Ma'am."

I have yet to find a 5 minute primer that manages to be both objective and concise. It was only last year that I began to immerse myself in the history of Middle East and I am learning more every day.

You might start with this timeline from the Israeli Foreign Ministry and explore some of the links there, then move on to the PLO website and read what they have to say.

One very astute observer of the Middle East is Daniel Pipes. His suggested reading list on Islam alone is worth the visit, and he maintains a vast archive with book reviews, articles and interview transcripts. For an opposing point of view, visit the Washington Report on Middle-East Affairs, a highly articulate pro-Palestinian web site.

The editorials and news reports that get posted to FreeRepublic will only get you so far in learning about Israel and its conflict with the Arab world.

In the end, it's up to you and your judgment.

37 posted on 04/02/2002 11:29:21 AM PST by tictoc
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To: dennisw
Palestinian spokesmen decry asymmetrical casualty figures, as if history has ever accorded moral capital to any belligerents that suffered the greater losses in war. Again, ask imperial Japan or Nazi Germany whether the ghosts of millions of their dead today carry moral weight when their governments once sought war against their neighbors. Deliberately trying to blow apart civilians will never be seen as the moral equivalent of noncombatants dying as a result of the street fighting in the West Bank.

Less than two years ago, Yasser Arafat was offered almost all of the West Bank and would now be the unquestioned strongman of his own tribal fiefdom had he taken such a generous Israeli offer. His own scheming and the intifada--not Israeli extremism--brought back to him his old nemesis, Ariel Sharon. Again, the problem for the Palestinians is not that Americans are ignorant of the historical complexities of the Middle East, but that we know them only too well.

Excellent article. Thanks Dennis.

38 posted on 04/02/2002 11:49:26 AM PST by Victoria Delsoul
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To: Goldsters; tictoc
Thank you both very much for the info!
39 posted on 04/02/2002 3:10:47 PM PST by Pining_4_TX
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To: all
FYI, Sean Hannity was encouraging everyone to read this article today.
40 posted on 04/02/2002 8:41:52 PM PST by Goldsters
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To: Pining_4_TX
Pining,

As a follow-up to your original question, David Horowitz of Frontpage Magazine published this summary of modern Israel's history. It's short, readable and contains maps so may fit your bill.

When you click "View Comments" at the bottom of the page, you can also read reader responses, both critical and positive, to the article.

41 posted on 04/04/2002 12:15:58 AM PST by tictoc
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