Van Dam Trial Transcripts, Complete: Testimony continues to vary from previous statements.

San Diego Superior Court/Union Trib ^ | April 9, 2002 | San Diego Superior Court-Kristen Green

[spectre]

No, ~Kim~, I understood what your response was..

OK, I'm gonna get off this thread and give some other people a chance. This looks like the spectre...Kim show! Not attractive.

But when you regroup, please answer my question. You know, the one where I challenged you to list some "positve things about the van Dams"? Maybe just ONE positive thing about them?....tick, tock..

sw

[Freedom2specul8]

Westerfield is a Nazi who was into experimenting on.....(blah, blah, blah).

Talk about a leap..do you really believe that is what I meant?

[Freedom2specul8]

Thanks for clarifying. I missed your request for a list. Why not make that a class assignment..make everyone including yourself answer it..then I'll do it.

[spectre]

Honestly? Yes. (Happy now?)

sw

[Freedom2specul8]

Not!

[spectre]

No, you don't skate that easily. I can think of nothing positive about the van Dams. Is "self-gratification" positive?

It would take the whole class to come up with anything positive about these two. (Giving Birth to three kids doesn't count)...DW had two...

See ya later, enjoy the sunshine.

sw

[Jaded]

Let me jump in here, I can't resist. The vD's loved their children. Then again, true sociopaths (mob hit men) love their families too. If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. Luke 6:32

Love and responsibility toward those under one's care are not mutually exclusive. Thanks, have a nice day.

[vacrn]

Yes, Spectre...sometimes people do not deserve to be parents. It's unfortunate this sweet child wasn't able to choose her parents.

[spectre]

All true. I agree.

"Bad parents happen"...

sw

[Valpal1]

C'mon rolling, defense lawyers never lie, right?

When one is planning to make the case for police misconduct, how self serving is this claim?

Feldman has nothing to lose by ignoring notifications and pretending they didn't happen, the process is weighted in his favor.

The defense has no interest in the truth, only in defending his client.

[vacrn]

PRUDENT - Definition

SYLLABICATION: pru·dent

PRONUNCIATION: prdnt

ADJECTIVE: 1. Wise in handling practical matters; exercising good judgment or common sense.

2. Careful in regard to one's own interests; provident.

3. Careful about one's conduct; circumspect

Kim did the VDs exercise "reasonable prudence"?

[Valpal1]

Contributory negligence, ~ NOT in the legal sense. Parent's have a reasonable assumption of safety, that their children are safe in their beds in their own home. A criminal act was committed against them and their child. It is unfortunate and true that they have some moral responsibility stemming from their lifestyle, but it does rise to the level of contributory negligence.

[Valpal1]

http://www.nils.com/rupps/contributory-negligence.htm An injured person's failure to exercise due care, which along with another person's (the defendant's) negligence, contributed to the injury. A common law defense, originating in England, that one who negligently harms another cannot be found liable if the injured person himself was negligent in the slightest degree.

I wouldna done it, judge, if the parents hadna made it so easy for me, honest!

Don't think Feldman is going to use that defense.

[FresnoDA]

.......seems there is some 'splaing to do here......so much for kimbo's Bean Bag Defense.....

Parents drug use, sex lives steal focus

Brenda van Dam cries as she testifies Thursday about her daughter's disappearance.

 

SAN DIEGO (Court TV) — The parents of Danielle van Dam took the stand Thursday at a preliminary hearing for their daughter's accused killer and tearfully recalled the circumstances of the 7-year-old's abduction from her bedroom.

Asked what she found when she went to wake her daughter on the morning of Feb. 2, a red-eyed Brenda van Dam replied, "an empty bed."

[Valpal1]

did the VDs exercise "reasonable prudence"?

It was the criminal act of another that makes the parents appear imprudent.

Their actions or inactions did not cause the predator to be a predator.

DVD followed a normal bedtime routine in a prudent manner and made sure they brushed their teeth before tucking them in for the night. He had a reasonable expectation that they were safe for the night.

A nighttime abduction is an unreasonable criminal act for which the parents had no reason to expect or fear.

The fact is, parents across America party now and again on wknds while their children are asleep in their beds. That behavior is not considered either imprudent or unreasonable. That some on this thread dislike or disapprove of it doesn't change that.

If the police are correct in their conclusion that Danielle was abducted by an outsider, then her parents are crime victims, not accessory participants to it.

[FresnoDA]

I will ignore that untruth..and raise you a fact. Fresno is the one who appears infatuated..he's the one who has been researching and posting his research about swinging: that I won't read btw. Wrong Gal er fella Spec! Besides, everyone, all of us agree with you about the immoral issues. But the judge will say..the only think illegal is the pot smoking. Sorry, but true.

Wrong kimbo...the point of the SWINGING research is to prove the debauchery of Brenda and The Demon.....and their wretched acquaintances.

What I find fascinating about your post, is that by your own admission, you WILL NOT READ ABOUT the swinging....

But Kimbo....the SWINGING is the crux of the matter.  By having no allegiance to their spousal commitments and vows, the VD's (and those creatures like them) fall to a lower level of esteem and respect for one another.

I also believe (and research confirms) that sexual addicts (which is what these people are) continually need to RAISE THE BAR of arousal.  (Look at the LuvSeat!!)  

Since their relationships are based purely upon physical gratification, and because there is little if any emotional attachment (look at the pictures of Brenda and The Demon at the PH, their body language is no different than 2 strangers seated next to one another).

So you see kimbo....the allegations of Hard Core Swinging by the VD's is a keystone to this case.  That is why it still has legs on FR.

Sadly, there are thousands of children kidnapped and murdered each year.  Many if not all are reported in the press.  Why has the VD case captured the attention of so many?

Because it is a perfect example of the moral bankruptcy our society is going through.  When Parents stop being Parents, and strive instead to be better sexual partners, for an unending line of willing receptacles and single pronged deviants, you have an unsafe and as evidenced hear (DEADLY) environment for little children.

You can spin away all you want kimbo....and this post is not intended as a flame or personal attack, but your refusal to dialogue honestly with the posters on FR with regards to the moral deviancies of the VD's and their Pizza Party pals continues to void your credibility in this debate.

REMEMBER KIMBO...none of us on the other side, from you VD Apologist are here to "spring Westerfield" or help him "Beat the wrap"....to the contrary.

I for one believe that by shining the light of accountability on the Van Dam's, it may well in fact further incriminate Westerfield.  But if the VD's are willing accomplices in the devious murder of Danielle, then by golly, they must be brought to justice.

Even the VD apologist MUST agree with that statement.

FresnoDA

Flame proof suit....zzzziiiippppp....NOW ON!!! Just read the 13 commandments of swinging, and you will see kimbo why the VD's were on a one way trip toward disaster....

 

Basic Swinging

Swinging can be an emotionally charged lifestyle. First of all, we "are" talking about having sex with someone other than your own spouse. That by itself can be a daunting prospect, especially for couples who haven’t talked a lot about their sexual fantasies. Second, every event you attend is a test of your people skills: you must make a conscious effort to behave diplomatically, and that’s not always easy when you’re used to dealing with your spouse who knows and understands your moods and various tones of voice. Finally, finding couples whom you are attracted to and who are attracted to you is a lot like dating, you try to make a good impression, you send what you hope are appropriate signals, you ask the big question, and you might get rejected. Here are some "basic rules" to remember.

Basic Rules

  1)   Never attempt to break up a couple.
  2)   Set your limits and stick to them. If the other party cannot accept them, leave!
  3)   Move at your own pace, don’t let someone rush you into something you may regret later.
  4)   Always keep the first meeting on a no strings attached basis, but be prepared to swing if
        it is mutually agreeable or to give an honest answer if something doesn’t click.
  5)   Don’t lie and cheat on your soul mate. If you do you're in the lifestyle for the wrong reason.
  6)   Always keep dates unless you give ample notice of changing circumstances.
  7)   Don’t cross other people’s limits.
  8)   Never, under any circumstances exert pressure on a partner to swing.
  9)   Protect the anonymity of other swingers by refraining from name dropping.
10)   Always maintain the highest standards of personal cleanliness and appearance.
11)   Do not engage in any unlawful activity that would discredit swingers as a group.
12)   Communicate and be honest with your soul mate and other swingers.
13)   No, thanks, means NO! No explanation needed.

Remember a swing club is the last place to be shy. To be successful you need to be open.

[Lauratealeaf]

"The fact is, parents across America party now and again on wknds while their children are asleep in their beds. That behavior is not considered either imprudent or unreasonable. That some on this thread dislike or disapprove of it doesn't change that."

I have read some weird statements on this thread but that takes the cake! Decent parents take care that their children are safe when they invite people into their own homes. I am speaking from my own experience of course but when my husband and I have had parties in our home there was never anything going on at our parties that our own children would not be able to see. In fact, they usually wanted to stay up for our parties and sometimes did! But, I don't think that it is right to call what the Van Dams were doing in their home with their swinging friends a "party". That ruins the meaning of a perfectly good word. It seems that since you don't include yourself with those who vehemenently disapprove of the Van Dam's sordid lifestyle that you must approve of it.

[FresnoDA]

Now, you tell me something positive about the van Dams. Your turn.

HUGE B U M P Spectre....

[Valpal1]

the SWINGING is the crux of the matter.

What a load of bovine excrement!

The CRUX of the matter is that David Westerfield, alone, has been charged with the crime and will stand trial for it.

Shriek all you want about the parent's immorality, it changes nothing. Does make the threads load slower though. That is kinda tiresome.

[FresnoDA]

Shriek all you want about the parent's immorality, it changes nothing. Does make the threads load slower though. That is kinda tiresome.

Hey Val.....why don't you and kimbo start a thread of your own...and then you can chat at each other like mina-birds......oh yeah, that's right.  Every time kimbo starts a thread, it dies.....in fact, were it not for the incessant number of posts by kim...the thread would be half the size it is......

GIVE IT UP VAL.....you are the lead VD apologist.....and no matter how hard you try to divert attention away from these deviants, the more you Apologize, the more you expose their "private parts"!!! (If it is possible to expose someone who shags in the parking lot of a bar!!)

Can you handle the truth, or will you simply press the ABUSE button......I know you are tempted.......

J O A K Val.....