ABSOLUTE POWER: What "Pro-Choice" Is Really All About: Answers, Abortion, Fatherhood

4/14/2001 | Sarah E. Hinlicky

[The Giant Apricots]

...breasts to nurse...

According to that illogic, women who couldn't nurse would be less-capable mothers.

And before you claim biological superiority as usual, have you heard of a lady named Andrea Yates? Susan Smith?

[The Giant Apricots]

Sorry, but that is...

...still blatantly false.

[joathome]

"Just as I thought, no evidence. Just speculation to prove some type of irrelevant point."

My point, is, INDEED, very relevant. In fact, it is just what many pro-choice men probably hope for.......that if the woman gets pregnant, she will take care of the abortion herself, so the blood won't be on his hands.

The most rabid "pro-choicer" I know is a single, middle aged man, who has no interest in taking responsibility for any offspring he might produce. He told me so one night while he was drunk on too much wine. :(

[joathome]

Women who nurse are not less capable. You cannot deduce that from my statements. Two of my six children are adopted, so obviously I didn't nurse them. According to God's plan, however, they would have been nursed by their biological mother. Unfortunately, sin entered the world, and it is fallen, including screwed up mothers and fathers.

[The Giant Apricots]

He told me so one night while he was drunk on too much wine....

Oh look, instead of the usual maternal supremacy twaddle, we have a contention based upon an old, incoherent drunk....

Well done!

[joathome]

Should be women who "can't nurse"

[The Giant Apricots]

I can and did deduce that from your statements...and now, immediately after quoting an incoherent old drunk guy, you claim to speak for the Almighty...how close to the sky does your ego end? Do you always offer such an unusual mix of references?

[The Giant Apricots]

By the way, what part of the Adam and Eve story even suggests that Adam wasn't with the kids as much as Eve was?

[joathome]

Look, this isn't a forensic debate where we score points based on evidence.

Any fool on this board willing to admit to a little common sense knows that a low-life type of guy who doesn't want to have anything to do with a girlfriend's pregnancy would just love NOT to know about it. Oh, I forgot! The only low-lifes around here are the women who trick men by getting pregnant.

I may not be a professional debater, but then again, I know a little bit about human nature.

[The Giant Apricots]

Should be women who "can't nurse"

Right, right.

[hocndoc]

No, *Thank you, very much, for posting the article!*

(Did you write it? If you did, get off the forum and finish those papers! Signed, Substitute Mom.)

[The Giant Apricots]

Look, this isn't a forensic debate where we score points based on evidence.

Sure it is.

[The Giant Apricots]

I did not write it...just found it. What does substitute mom mean?

[joathome]

What part of the bible tells you that men nursed? Women have always taken care of infants and children, with boys working with their fathers as they got older in previous generations. I completely agree that once boys reach a certain age, they should be with their fathers, by the way. There is nothing in history or our present day, however, to support the notion that men are better caretakers of children than women, although I believe individual men may certainly be better than individual women. Probably lots these days, since women have lost the art of homemaking and caretaking of their children.

[The Giant Apricots]

Lots of men are better at raising children, including the littlest ones...I'd say half. And bottle-feeding works great, notwithstanding the contentions of the La Leche fanatics.

[joathome]

Bottle feeding is NOT as good. Period. It's a good substitute, but an inferior substitute, nevertheless. If you want the heathiest baby possible with long term benefits, nursing is best. You can't improve on God's design. (And I'm not a La Leche fanatic.)

[The Giant Apricots]

There is nothing in history from the beginning of time til about 80 years ago, however, to support the notion that women should have the legal right to vote.

If you want to claim history, you'll have to take all of it, or it bears no weight...and until 1839, fathers were guaranteed custody of all their children, infants included; it was that way for all of time before then. Maternal custody is relatively new.

[Lorianne]

A) You see the current expectation that the mother will sacrifice career and education to be the primary caregiver as unfair to her. O.K. I'd love to see a societal expectation that fathers will spend equal time---and be OBLIGATED to spend equal time---with all children they father. Equal responsibility. B) In turn, I see the current expectation that the father will be just a bankbook, working to support the child without the legally right to be an equal caregiver/parent. So, similarly to the above, I'd love to see a societal expectation that mothers be OBLIGATED to provide the same percentage of their income to supporting child/family as the father is.

So how would you suggest the imbalances in A and B be rectified simultaneously?

The only way it can be, by changing our emphasis from from indivudual "rights" to individual obligations... but equal ones by both parties .... with respect to children.

BTW I agree with Joathome. The father's intentions toward the child are pivotal in abortion decisions ... both pro and con.

If society supported the theory of equal obligations (both fininacial and hands-on caregiving) to childern IMO there would be vastly less abortion. I also believe that a large percentage of less than enthusiatic parents-to-be would in the end be good parents unlike the popularly promoted pessimistic view that unintended children are doomed to be unloved and abused. I believe the vast majority of bio-fathers would become good father-fathers.

I also believe along with the societal expectation of equal obligations, the rate of unwanted conceptions would plumment.

[The Giant Apricots]

I know some verty smart, athletic little ones who were only bottle-fed who would disagree with you.

But in any case, I've got to go take care of business.

Been vaguely entertaining.

[HiTech RedNeck]

That he would ever have to bespeaks a moral bankruptcy that mocks even instinct.

It's like one of those surreal fairy tales of wicked witches.