Sure it has. There are two nations formed by a gathering out of the nations. Both are front and center on the world stage. The state of Israel, and the one called in Hebrew, the "lands of the covenant".
Posted on 04/15/2002 12:16:07 AM PDT by 2sheep
It's the King James version, what's wrong with that sheepie??
The restoration that Ezekiel is fortelling has already occured before the first coming. That second temple was destroyed utterly in 70AD, 1.1 million jews perished, and most the rest were sold into slavery for a pittance, Israel was once again grafted out and her covenant with God ended.
Under the new covenant salvation is still available to all, but is no longer granted to any one nation, but to all of every nation.
Under the new covenant salvation is now available to all, and is no longer granted to just one nation, but to all of every nation.
I'm not picking on you PG but this is something that I've been studying. I hope that this is not some tired, old debate (I'm not much for scholarly writings so I wouldn't know).
Hosea 1:2-11
2 The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD.
3 So he went and took Gomer the daughter of Diblaim; which conceived, and bare him a son.
4 And the LORD said unto him, Call his name Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel.
5 And it shall come to pass at that day, that I will break the bow of Israel in the valley of Jezreel.
6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.
7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.
8 Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son.
9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.
Hosea prophesied the destruction of the northern kingdom of Israel- the 'house of Israel'. The daughters name was Loruhamah:
3819 Lo' Ruchamah (lo roo-khaw-maw'); from 3808 and 7355; not pitied; Louchamah, the symbol. name of a daughter of Hosea:
Hosea's second son was named Loammi:
3818 Lo' `Ammiy (lo am-mee'); from 3808 and 5971 with pronominal suffix; not my people; Lo-Ammi, the symbolic name of a son of Hosea:
This prophecy specifically concerns the house of Israel (the northern kingdom) - not the house of Judah. Verse 7 makes this very clear- " I will have mercy upon the house of Judah". Judah has no part in this until verse 11: "Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head" The house of Israel has not been regathered. The house of Judah and the house of Israel do not have one head. This one head will be Jesus Christ. These 2 houses are still separate today. There are countless references to this future time in scripture. Following are just a few- go read them in context if you think I'm wrong.
Jer 3:17-18
17 At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.
18 In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers.
Ezek 37:16-22
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
Isa 11:10-13
10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
13 The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.
I had to restrain myself from listing more. To get back to my original point from Hosea, who do you think Paul is talking about here?:
Rom 9:21-26
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
Paul quotes the verses from Hosea. "Her beloved"- a direct reference to Hosea's daughter. But this passage from Romans is speaking of gentiles, isn't it? "Not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles"- why would Paul choose a passage that specifically refers to the house of Israel? In this context?
Rom 11:25-26
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Who is really blind? Let this sink in:
Jer 23:5-8
5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
7 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
8 But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.
Praise God
Would you please quote the Bible verse(s) which establish an EXCLUSIVE everlasting covenant with the Jews?
Yes, but David was not a Jew. This may help:
Genesis: God, Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel, Seth, Enoch, Methuselah, Noah, Shem, Ham, Japheth, Lot, Abraham, Sara, Melchizedek, Eliezer, Hagar, Ishmael, Isaac, Abimelech, Rebekah, Laban, Keturah, Esau, Jacob/Israel, Leah, Rachel, Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, Benjamin, Dinah, Potiphar, Tamar, Perez, Zerah, Manasseh, Ephraim.
Exodus: Moses, Zipporah, Gershom, Jethro, Aaron, Eleazar, Joshua, Hur, Nadab, Abihu, Ithamar, Bezalel, Uri, Nun, Oholiab, Ahisamach.
Leviticus: Mishael, Elzaphan, Uzziel, Molech, Shelomith, Dibri.
Others: David, Solomon and Sampson were not Jews, among many others...
No Israelites were called "Jews" until well after the collapse of the original Davidic Kingdom of Israel and formation of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms in about 922 BC. Many scholars place the earliest date of actual word usage ~500 BC, following the return of the Southern Kingdom from Bablyon. Those ~50,000 Jews were Israelites, but only a tiny number of the Millions of Israelites were called Jews. While the numbers are relatively small, the distinction is a major one.
Right.
> We get the word "Jew" from Judah.
Only in the sense that the word "Jew" eventually came from the OFFSPRING of the TRIBEs of Judah and Benjamin and Levi which formed the Southern Kingdom, but over a Thousand Years after Judah himself died. See my Profile for more...
But David was not a Jew. "Jews" didn't appear until almost 500 years after Davids death, when they returned from Babylon. Davids Kingdom of Israel contained all 12 tribes, including the Tribe of Judah, which was not "Jewish".
Please note that I may have confused everybody by posting the paragraph below and not identifying it as part of the article PI-Matchett posted.
I lifted this paragraph: 1. The present-day nation of Israel is no more involved in God's plans for the future than is France, England, Germany, the United States, etc. The teaching of the New Testament is very clear - Jesus fulfilled everything pertaining to Israel and formed the New Israel, His church"
from PI-Matchett's article, which I do not agree with. I was reposting it to him as a question to him.
The Kingdom of Judah are the Tribes of Judah and Benjamin. The Kingdom of Israel are the remaining ten tribes. Some of the Kingdom of Israel settled in Judah after the destruction of the northern kingdom. Gentiles are neither of the two, (i.e., not descendants of any of the twelve tribes).
And did not King Solomon build a temple for G-d?
No, Solomon was not a Jew. But not long after his reign, the Kingdom of Israel collapsed into the Northern and Southern Kingdoms. The name Kingdom of Israel went with the 10 tribes in the North. The south was made up of Judah, parts of Levi and Benjamin and was called The Kingdom of Judah.
It was this Southern Kingdom which was taken into the Babylonian captivity about 400 years later. Those 50,000 who returned from Babylon to Jerusalem were called "Jews". (See my Profile for closer dates.)
Sure it has. There are two nations formed by a gathering out of the nations. Both are front and center on the world stage. The state of Israel, and the one called in Hebrew, the "lands of the covenant".
Sure, and I don't have any probem with that, as long as we all know it is not historically correct.
The Vikings (probably) discovered America a thousand years ago. That doesn't mean that Minnesota football team cannot call itself Vikings. But that also does NOT mean those football players are REAL Vikings, even though some of their ancestors may have been real Vikings.
You know, I just don't see that in the NT. I have read and read and read the Bible for most of my life, and I have never noticed anything that says that. Perhaps I just don't know exactly what you mean though.
I agree that Jesus fullfilled the law and the Prophets, but I don't believe that God will not honor his promise to Israel from the OT.
Is this the teaching of New Testament Churches or something? I am not being ugly here, I seriously want to understand what you mean.
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