Posted on 04/15/2002 8:31:13 PM PDT by Slyfox
This statement you hurled at another poster is most apt in application to you alone.
So it's better to damage Christ's Church by working against Her in undermining a bishop's legitimate authority than let a liberal get away with making a decision we object to? The ends cannot be used to justify the means. You should read JPII's Encyclical "The Splendor of Truth" if you don't understand this. Also, the problems in the Church are the result of insufficient faith and prayer among all its members, not just your liberal scapegoats.
THIS GAME IS OVER. Priests and laity have their place in the Code of Canon Law, and it is time to fight every AmChurch traitor wherever they may be with every recourse under canon law and American constitutional law.
Nothing in Canon Law states that the laity have any part in a priest's appeal of a reassignment. Furthermore, civil law plays no part in internal Church disputes (or would you prefer that the USSC be allowed to mandate the ordination of women?).
OBEDIENCE TO PETER AND TO THOSE WHO ARE OBEDIENT TO PETER.
Better check your history, "history_matters". In case you didn't know, the bishops are the heirs of the Apostles. Publicly working to undermine their authority with other members of the laity is an attack on the entire Church, including the Bishop of Rome.
OBEDIENCE TO PETER AND TO THOSE OBEDIENT TO PETER.
Dream on. Cuddle up with Bishops Ryan, Imesch and assorted other minions of Satan if you want to, but do not dare suggest that working to expose evil and wickedness is an attack upon the entire Church including the Pope. That comment alone makes it clear for all that you haven't a clue what you are talking about, or that you are nothing but an emissary from the left hand of darkness.
OBEDIENCE TO PETER AND THOSE WHO ARE OBEDIENT TO PETER.
Do have anything more objective to say about my comments to you than a string of unsubstantiated and fallacious Ad Hominem attacks?
OBEDIENCE TO PETER AND TO THOSE OBEDIENT TO PETER.
Again, any attack on the legitimate authority of the church's bishops is an attack on the heir of Peter, the Bishop of Rome.
More unsubstantiated and fallacious Ad Hominem attacks? Don't you have anything meaningful to say about my comments than name calling? Your statements are illogical and poorly constructed as afraidfortherepublic's.
OBEDIENCE TO PETER AND THOSE WHO ARE OBEDIENT TO PETER
Some day Peter will judge both of us, in part by the statements we have made here. Let's pray for each other.
The issue is the illegitimate use of authority. The issue is legitimate opposition to injustice, wickedness, and out and out evil. If a bishop has covered up for a pedophile, out he must go. If a bishop uses his office to persecute the conservative faithful and promote anti-Magisterial, anti-Papal individuals, out he must go. If the laity must use everything in their power to see to the resignation or removal of such individuals, then they must be like St. Catherine of Sienna and without temerity speak the truth to power when power is unable to see the truth.
OBEDIENCE TO PETER AND TO THOSE OBEDIENT TO PETER.
I believe that this matter needs a lot of prayer, but living in Texas I also know that the Diocese of Dallas is ill-served by their leadership -- and those problems have sadly poisoned the University of Dallas. An entire department of excellent folks left Dallas and joined Ave Maria University. I understand they are going to open an extension campus in Fort Worth. (I confess that makes me chuckle.)
It is clear you love the Church very much, Ronaldus, but I really am afraid you cannot see the forest for the trees.
Finally, some substance to your rebuttals. I agree with everything you said here about the illegitimate use of power by bishops. I disagree, however, in who should lead the effort for their removal. "All authority comes from God and those authorities that exist have been instituted by God" (Romans 13:1-2). Although by natural law people are always permitted to defend themselves, it is not for us in the laity to participate in the removal of the religious we deem unfit. That's not our role. We have a good Pope. If you have a problem with a particular bishop, write a letter to Rome. Don't just attack the bishop's office.
OBEDIENCE TO PETER AND TO THOSE OBEDIENT TO PETER.
You need to to try harder to believe this. "And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it" (Matthew 16:13-19). We should do our part to defend His Church, but never allow ourselves to become so misguided as to think we can please Him by attacking it. This is Christ's Church, he won't let these liberals wreck it. For someone who claims in their Free Republic profile to pray full-time, you appear to have a great deal of hate and fear for those in the church with whom you disagree and are quick to judge those whom you do not know. God will not abandon us and we should never loose our faith in Him. As Mother Teresa of Calcutta once said to a troubled priest, "You wouldn't have these problems if you prayed more".
All of my efforts here have been in defense of the Church. Using your analogy, I've been trying to save the forest from a few well meaning but misguided people trying to burn it all down just to get at a few individual trees.
This is the kind of tactic you use to discredit people, and it is truly wicked. I respond to you with such passion because I see the position you continue to put forth as the kind of pious but misguided mindset that has done nothing of substance to stop these horrible crimes against children committed by priests and covered up by bishops. I continue to believe that your position is without merit and will do nothing but enable those who have led us to this tragic time. I will pray for you.
OBEDIENCE TO PETER AND TO THOSE OBEDIENT TO PETER.
They have already wrecked it in America. There are those engaged in salvage operations. May God prosper the work of their hands.
My faith in him is rock solid, and I have no doubt that he will not abandon us. But he has also given us skills, reason, and memory, and to fail to employ them for the preservation of the Church is to dishonor God the giver of all good gifts. Where I see the work of preservation and re-establishment of the truth of the Church, you see an attack on the office of bishop, the Pope, and the Church herself.
As Mother Teresa of Calcutta once said to a troubled priest, "You wouldn't have these problems if you prayed more".
Since you adressed this post to me and have already questioned my dedication to prayer, your use of Mother Teresa in this way is truly unfortunate. Without a doubt Mother is absolutely right -- and applying her wisdom to ourselves we should all pray more. Sadly, you use her words like a weapon against me, and that is revealing in itself and absolutely wrong.
We have a good Pope. If you have a problem with a particular bishop, write a letter to Rome. Don't just attack the bishop's office.Yes, you've said the truth i.e., the good Pope, respect for the office of bishop. But the rest has clearly been tried and failed. The sad part is that the Church you love only seems to respond when the money dries up and the press shines a light on the crimes inside. That makes the Catholic Church look really bad. I think the Church in America is in for a rough ride if it follows the course you suggest. Link:Should we prosecute the Catholic Church?
It is really tough having to hear the latest on our beloved parish and priest, from the television set.
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