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To: Harrison Bergeron
No references, no qualitative data, no citations, not one single footnote or credit to an outside source.

--------------------------

From the series:

References

Myers, JK, Weissman MM, Tischler GL, Holzer CE III, Leaf PJ, Orvaschel H, Anthony JC, Boyd JH, Burke JD Jr, Kramer M, Stoltzman R: Six-month prevalence of psychiatric disorders in three communities 1980-1982. Arch Gen Psychiatry 1984;41:959-967.

Robins LN, Helzer JE, Weissman MM. Orvaschel H, Gruenberg E, Burke JD Jr, Regier DA: Lifetime prevalence of specific psychiatric disorders in three sites. Arch Gen Psychiatry 1984;41:949-958.

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One of many in the series. Many are included in the text in conversational style, but can be traced to the sources.

Basically, you have a problem. You are a gamma level, or at best beta minus mind trying to present yourself as an alpha through pretentious vocabulary and trivial criticism of form.

Secondly, you're a God damned liar.

About ten people on this thread have told you that in one way or another. Maybe you should listen for the first time in your life.

You are caught and revealed for what you are, and are vainly attempting to argue your way out of it. You aren't going to make it in this life among people of stature or substance, sonny boy. As one of the other posters here said, if you are tired of hearing it, gtow up. In your case, however, the the advice is somewhat useless because you have an intrinsic mental limitation that is incurable. I suspect it is useless to suggest you stop inflicting that limitation on other people.

Have a nice day.

96 posted on 04/18/2002 11:19:30 PM PDT by RLK
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To: RLK
[To H. Bergeron -> ] Basically, you have a problem. You are a gamma level, or at best beta minus mind trying to present yourself as an alpha through pretentious vocabulary and trivial criticism of form.

I went over to the orlingrabbe site and went through most of Section 10 very carefully, even taking notes. I just don't have time tonight to go through the whole thing, but maybe at some point I will.

From what I've seen so far, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss H. Bergeron's criticisms. Section 10, at least, strikes me as an example of the sort of thing it claims to denounce. To set out to assist the ladies by explaining to them just how horrible other men are (compared to you, of course) is in fact just a form of trying to get laid; it is one of the tired old stratagems that you decry as being scheming and dishonest. In saying this I don't mean that you wrote the piece to literally 'get laid' because I suspect you're old enough to not give a damn, but the instinct to do those sorts of things is still there, and it seems to me that you have succumbed to it... I suspect to the point of even making up horror stories.

Also, I think it's fair to say that your view of women -- at least up the point I stopped reading -- is basically demeaning. Everything you discuss is from the point of view of someone who considers men to be the only actors in this world. In this view, women are just passive "things" that cannot act or react... they are merely helpless victims of scheming and conniving men, with no wills or brains of their own. How chivalrous of you to blame only men for the acts of all who tangoed. Chivalrous, but unrealistic and ultimately dismissive of women as human beings.

Although I don't have time right now to refute them, some of your stated facts set off my crap detector. I would like to see a source for the statement, "During the 1960s, the suicide rate of women increased to 150 percent of what it had been, while the suicide rate of men remained constant." Having studied historical suicide rates a bit, my temptation is to suspect that you made that up as a way to add heft to the rhetoric. Either that, or the rate did go up but the absolute numbers were so small that percentage changes are meaningless. What's your source for that factoid?

    It sounds like a joke, but in absolute seriousness, much of this present great age of turmoil, pseudo-intellectual questioning, and iconoclasm has arisen as the result of an attempt to manipulate women into beds..The discourse became progressively refined, convoluted, and eloquent.

Yes, that does sound like a joke. The premise seems to be that somehow, in the nineteen hundred and sixtieth year after Christ, men suddenly and unexpectedly developed a desire to manipulate women into bed, and that much that is wrong with our society today came from this wholly unanticipated event. Women everywhere were caught so off guard by the idea of men trying to get in their pants that society's entire moral base collapsed on the spot. C'mon, you couldn't sell that at the county fair to people who just bought a set of ginsu knives.

Perhaps my attitude will change as I examine the other articles, but so far it looks to me like you're proceeding from the fundamental assumption that women have no say in events; that they are just these passive objects who are acted upon by men. This leads you to see only men as possible causes of the phenomena you seek to explain. Since that leaves out half of the explanatory variables, it is unlikely that you will find any truth by doing this. About the only thing one can say for the approach is that is has the delightful property of assigning all blame to men, which will make your theory highly popular among those women who choose to smile when being dismissed as inanimate objects, if that lets them off the hook for anything that happened.

If I had to summarize Section 10 in three sentences, they would be these: "Ladies, you wouldn't believe how horrible men are. In fact, I am the only man you can trust. Can we go to bed now?"


125 posted on 04/20/2002 2:14:17 AM PDT by Nick Danger
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To: RLK
You got me dead to rights on the my erroneous accusation that your material lacked citations. I was wrong about that. The few citations you returned with were buried in the material, deeply, given its sheer volume. One would have expected to citations and footnotes where professional writers and researchers would normally place them: at the end, in order.

To be honest, after all of your hysterics and pant wetting... if I had presented a paper in such disorganized form in the high school I attended, it would have been returned unread with a little note that said "Footnotes please." If I had presented such work at the university I attended, it would have also been returned unread, but with a big fat "F" scrawled on it.

138 posted on 04/20/2002 7:47:36 PM PDT by Harrison Bergeron
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To: RLK
This is how you associate yourself? And you expect anybody to take your stuff - especially that "playboy philosophy" theory - seriously?

Have you no dignity?

144 posted on 04/20/2002 9:04:44 PM PDT by Harrison Bergeron
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