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To: Maelstrom
Not everything Hobbes said was an overly simplified generalization. The first quote on the list is in large text for a reason, and is one of my favorite because I see it proved on a daily basis on this forum (this is not a jab at you).

If you are going to discount Hobbes then you need to discount the Idea of the executive branch of our government. As I am sure you know, there were two compelling reasons for the creation of an executive branch, both of equal importance.

First was the need of having a national representative that could deal on equal terms with other heads of state, who, at the time, were comprised entirely of sovereign monarchs who generally acted in accordance with Hobbes' dictums. Second, there was the need to invest in a nationally elected official, the power to wage war and command our national forces into battle in a timely manner should the need arise. Even in the days when the time between the declaration of war and the first shot fired months could be (or vice-versa), the need to act without wasting time in congressional debates stood paramount to the survival of a fledgling democracy surrounded by predatory monarchs. A point that has been proven right time and time again. This was one of Hobbes' positive contributions to our government.

As for the Civil War. Lincoln was right. Davis was wrong. It was the South that couldn't abide by the Constitutional process that was on its way towards eliminating its "beloved institution". Had Davis and his cronies succeeded, The United States would not exist, and its former states on both sides of the Mason-Dixon line would be sucking hind-tit to the rest of the world or back under British colonial rule - which is why they backed the South.

36 posted on 04/23/2002 10:19:55 AM PDT by PsyOp
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To: PsyOp
As for the Civil War. Lincoln was right. Davis was wrong. It was the South that couldn't abide by the Constitutional process that was on its way towards eliminating its "beloved institution". Had Davis and his cronies succeeded, The United States would not exist, and its former states on both sides of the Mason-Dixon line would be sucking hind-tit to the rest of the world or back under British colonial rule - which is why they backed the South.

We'll forever disagree on this...I believe if Davis and his cronies had succeeded, slavery would have been abolished with a more graduated and more peaceful desegregation of the races and once that had been accomplished more of the Northern States would have seceded to join the Confederacy. The exception being the Northeast, which would have devolved into a fascist nation not unlike Hitler's Germany.
37 posted on 04/23/2002 11:59:42 AM PDT by Maelstrom
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