Posted on 05/01/2002 9:09:03 PM PDT by Pokey78
Edited on 04/23/2004 12:04:26 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
The Libertarian Prime Directives are applied to reality, not derived from reality. A sparrow does not drop to the ground without a Libertarian running to figure out what libertarian ideology says should be done with the carcass.
That is why the LP platform is amusing reading. From the UN Charter on the moon to immigration, the LP has a categorical answer on what should be done. The "Party of Principle" is eager to apply those principles to every nook and cranny of existence. The LP does not believe in delayed gratification, any teological suspension of the ethical or any compromise. It is a gnostic faith.
Oh, they'll just come here and rape your women on military excusions provided by the UN.
Whoa... I am sorry if I left the impression that I despise Libertarians. I do not. As a matter of fact, I have several times voted for the Libertarian candidate. And probably a full third or more of Republican office-holders absolutely nauseate me. My congresscritter is Greenwood!!
I believe in strict adherence to the US Constitution and therefore I am well aware that at least 90% of our federal government's activities are unconstitutional. The income tax and government schools are unconstitutional. Confiscation of people's money so that it may be handed over (by check or gov't "program") to other people to whom it does not belong is unconstitutional. And so forth. I understand all of this.
However, the American people blew it long, long ago with the help of the scumbag whores they elected. Extracting ourselves from the mess this country is in can never be accomplished through elections any more than 200 million heroin addicts could all stay off the junk for good while thousands of pushers are sticking it in their faces.
Therefore, pragmatism must rule the day. The Libertarian party has self destructed (or been sabotaged) by the perception that its focus is on legalizing illegal drugs. I realize that that is not what the party is all about, but it sure looks that way to the ignorant rabble, and way too many Libertarians seem happy to push that focus. It is simply a loser issue. Also, there is a smell of anarchy to the Libertarian party that comes from its seeming reliance on courts of law to settle everything. For example, the FDA and food inspection - - a baby food manufacturer screws up and accidently kills thousands of babies? Sue him. That'll teach 'em.
I also understand all the "slippery slope" arguments, but there is a place for the balancing effect of a free press on a government which takes on too many jobs, or grows too fast. The problem is that the corruption and greed of our elected officials and our "free press" is way too much to overcome. America, as originally envisioned, is dead in the water. When I watched the Congressional hearings on the IRS a few years ago and saw federal government employees testifying in the Capitol Building with voice scramblers and hoods over their heads out of fear of their federal government employers, that's when I knew that the grand experiment of the founding fathers was over.
All we can do, in my opinion, is keep pushing back, relentlessly. But it's far too late to resurrect the Constitution. That thing is history.
However, I will never stop pushing back.
Regards,
LH
As you well know, there is nothing in the Constitution that forbids taxpayer funding of religious activities. Tell us, exactly what advancement of religious dogma are you referring to? Congress has made no law respecting an establishment of any religion.
Support of a non-interventionist foreign policy is not anti-military.
The federal government, has every right to secure, protect and defend American interests around the world. If the LP ever had the power, they would dismantle the current military establishment, in favor of sling shots and bows and arrows, reducing America to third world status overnight.
Support of limited government and free-market capitalism is not anti-government.
Limited government is a good old fashioned conservative-republican idea. Free market capitalism is also a good solid fiscal policy. In those areas, most libertarians seem to agree with the conservative-republican agenda.
Recognition of, and respect for, individual rights and private property is not anti-community.
Individual rights and property rights are the backbone of libertarian policy, but they have little to do with, recognition of and respect for community efforts, as in houses of worship, local school and local taxpayer funded police and fire departments.
Oh my god, Regan Man! We can't allow people to be free! They'll make the wrong choices!
America is the land of the free and the home of the brave. Libertarian's always overlook history, especially when it doesn't fit their anti-government and anti-society agenda. For mankind to grow and prosper, it takes a lot more then just individual freedom. It takes a conscious effort by everyone.
The rest of your rant is typical libertarian rhetoric. Libertarians would be very happy with no government, at all! A libertarian world, is a world of chaos and anarchy. I say, no thanks.
That's like saying that the definition of conservatism is the platform of the Republican Party.
I have been more specific. In RE:#47, I told you to read RE:#44. Either you forgot to read it, or you don't understand it.I'm sorry, it was incredibly vague, but I'll do my best to address it.
Anti-government: This depends on what you percieve as the role of govt. I believe that govt exists to protect an individual's right to life, liberty and property and that "to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government" If being anti-legalized plunder makes me 'anti-government', so be it. Government in and of itself is not a social good, it is an instrument. I'm against it's misuse, not its existence.
Anti-military: I do not believe defending the Constitution of the United States (that is the oath our military members swear) requires posting troops in over a hundred countries and positioning American troops in the midst of whatever conflict catches the camera lens. Why is adherence to the Washingtonian/Jeffersonian foreign policy considered 'anti-military'? My father served 20 years in the USAF, my grandparents and uncles have served as well. I have no hostility for them, or the military in general. I understand the concept of peace through strength, what I don't understand is why our military is compelled by the govt. to occupy so many other countries when their duty is to defend ours. Particularly when this occupation, instead of preserving American peace, stokes aggression against us. Exhibit (A) WTC Ground Zero
Anti-religion: I'm not anti-religion. How is the Libertarian party anti-religion? The platform you cited states: "We defend the rights of individuals to engage in (or abstain from) any religious activities that do not violate the rights of others. In order to defend freedom, we advocate a strict separation of church and State. We oppose government actions that either aid or attack any religion."
Anti-community: I'm not even sure what you mean by this. The Libertarian party supports freedom of association. How are they 'anti-community'?
Anti-society: Same as above, unless what you mean is that the Libertarian party defends the rights of the individual, even in the face of societal pressure.
I'm not going to list everything, I find grossly abhorrent about the Libertarian Party platform, here tonight or anyother time for that matter. I've been through all this with the many libertarian defenders, here on FreeRepublic, for the last few years.I was just looking for some specifics. I didn't ask for an exhaustive list, just a policy they advance that you oppose and why.
You're a newbee. It would seem, you have some catch up homework to do on the issues. I already laid out some specifics. Don't blame me for your shortcomings. Do some research in the FR archives.Newbee? My shortcomings? Does this add anything to the discussion? Let's try and keep the discussion above this. This is a forum for expressing and defending ideas. There is no place for ad hominem.
A libertarian, is a person who upholds the principles of absolute and unrestricted liberty, especially of thought and action. A libertarian, is a member of a political party advocating libertarian principles.
Why are you trying to run away from the party that supports and promotes your political agenda? Are you scared to be associated with the Libertarian Party and its platform of anti-government and liberal pro-abortion, pro-drugs and pro-prostitution agenda?
Come on, inquiring minds want to know. LOL
You are of the opinion that our agression caused the annihilation of our symbol of greatness, as well as nearly 3000 people's deaths. I disagree. If you look into the Qu'ran, you wil find the drectives. The people who destroyed the WTC were not extremists. They were just exercizing their duties as good Muslims.
And unwittingly, anti-property. They seek the destruction of the very institutions that make private property possible.
The Libertarian Party platform ( which so many FR Libertarians disagree with , in so many respects, but still slam the rest of us because WE disagree with more of it ) states that they are " neutral " ( which really means PRO ! ) on all abortion , for the legalization of dope, prostitution , and the freeing of " nonviolent " ( they mean dopers and whores ) criminals. It also is for pornogtaphy , " childrens' rights " ( anyone tall enough to reach the lever may vote ) , the privitization of roads ( this was tried already, at the begnnings of this nation and was an abject failure ) , and no public schools.
When your fellow FREEPERS say that they find Libertarians lacking in morals, it is because of most of the above planks in the LP platform. There have been FR Libertarians, who have called obvious child porn, " ART ", on threads, and claimed that age of consent laws are not only arbitrary, but silly. Anyone , who thinks that prepubescent children should be allowed to copulate , is morally challenged at best. Anyone, who see " ART " , in kiddie porn, has no moral standing ! That isn't just my considered opinion, it is what the majority of people have thought for millenia.
Partial birth abortion is infanticide . The LP platform doesn't agree. Morality ? Where is it, in the LP platform ?
The real problem with so very much of Libertarianism, is that conseqences of actions, either never really enters into any of it, or is poo pooed.
To rail against the UN's take over of American lands , on the one hand, and then to promot the idea that roads and higways should be privately owned ( by anyone , since there is NO stated provisison eliminating anyone / any foreign power ) is hypcritical; if not something far worse.
You have said that ALL religions should be tolerated, as long as the practices don't impinge upon anothers' rights. Whose to say what those " rights " are ? YOU ? Isn't that awfully authoritarian ? More Libertarian dodublespeak , I guess.
At least you have refrained from the ubiquitous Liertarian code words and phrases ... thus far. LOL
It wasn't vague. I was very clear. You just don't agree with me and that's fine. Everything doesn't require a diatribe. Rebuttals can be short and sweet.
Nice recital of well known historical documents. Now, if you could only get the Libertarian Party to agree with those words. But they won't, because there ultimate goal is to aboilsh all government. If you believe its not, then you're as naive, as they come.
On the issue of military intervention. Conservatives only support intervention, where American interests are deemed important. I would have to agree with you, that the US has far too many tropps stationed around the world and in many areas where America has no real interests. But the Libertarian Party, doesn't support any use of military force, in any part of the world and would quickly reduce America's military armed forces, to third world status.
I must say, you're just like all libertarians and political malcontents in general. You blame American foreign policy for the events of 9-11 and not the terrorists who carried out the attacks. As a conservative and a patriot, I call that anti-American rhetoric and totally uncalled for.
Just by the mere mention of the party platform, "...we advocate a strict separation of church and State. We oppose government actions that either aid or attack any religion." There is nothing in the Constitution that requires a strict separation, or any separation of church and state. Congress has made no law respecting an establishment of any religion, in our 225 year history and I don't believe it is going to start anytime soon, either.
The Libertarian party supports freedom of association. How are they 'anti-community'?
The Libertarian Party doesn't support government run police or fire departments. Libertarians support free market run enterprises, period. It doesn't believe in government run departments and agencies that bring services to the people through taxpayer funding.
Anti-society... unless what you mean is that the Libertarian party defends the rights of the individual, even in the face of societal pressure.
We American's live in an orderly and law abiding society that has rules and regulations which all people must follow, less we have chaos in the streets. The judicial court system is what has been given, under law, to each and every person, to defend their individual rights. The Libertarian Party would dismantle America's court system and abolish all victimless crimes. Which means crimes against society and crimes against government would not exist. I can not support such anarchism. No thank you!
There is no place for ad hominem.
I agree. I have made no ad hominem attacks against you. I just pointed out the obvious. You are a newbee, are you not? I think so. And you better get use to FReepers pointing out your shortcomings. It gets worse.
BTW, its late. Goodnight!
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