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Cardinal's words on gay priests surprise scholars
The Philadelphia Inquirer ^ | Fri, May. 03, 2002 | JIM REMSEN

Posted on 05/03/2002 6:38:30 PM PDT by history_matters

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To: pgkdan
Can someone explain the concept of a "moral evil"?

Am I correct in assuming that the phrase was never heard before the Church had to deal with homosexuals?

101 posted on 05/03/2002 9:20:28 PM PDT by Dianna
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To: RobbyS
Dr. Laura once read some report that of all groups, AIDS was at the highest rate among priests.
102 posted on 05/03/2002 9:22:10 PM PDT by Angelique
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To: sinkspur
Problem is that many are just hiding in the preisthood. Also Homosexuality is a perversion of the natural. It is not a seperate sexual orientation. Therefore accepting people who think they are homosexual into the preisthood is a very questionable practise. They already are having a problem with the scriptures by the very nature of supposedly being homosexual.

God Bless

Mel

103 posted on 05/03/2002 9:23:44 PM PDT by melsec
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To: arepublicifyoucankeepit
these loser's are bragin but this is a lie,why are you posting this without info to prove it,I saw that site
104 posted on 05/03/2002 9:24:07 PM PDT by fatima
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To: sinkspur
How about: Track down each and every one. Any proven act of homosexuality separates the actor UNDER CHURCH AUTHORITY permanently from the priesthood. The government can investigate, indict, try and punish as in any other case but who is a priest and who is a bishop is strictly Church business and our First Amendment recognizes as much, viewing the courts as quite incompetent to rule on matters of religious doctrine.

Purge the seminaries of pederasts, pedophiles, homosexuals and enablers and protectors (liberal or conservative, normal or homosexual). End all experiments in AmChurch heterodoxy and heresy. Restore order. Get pushy parishioners out of positions of governance. Expect, according to Canon Law, priests not "eucharistic ministers" to distribute the Eucharist at Mass. End the narcissistic practice of "communion in the hand" to thwart theft of the Eucharist by satanists. Remove from the priesthood and any position of authority anyone who acts so as to undermine the truth of the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. Nuke any nervy bishop or archbishop like the Mad Monk of Milwaukee Rembert Weakland at the first instance of willful disobedience. Just for starters. AND stop kowtowing to every fashionable and politically correct trend of the week and of the weak. Anyone who finds actual Catholicism too much of a challenge to their morally flabby attitudes can just get out. There are plenty of less rigorous churches.

Instead of having to put up with lavender priests, lavender bishops, heretical priests, heretical bishops and the enablers of them all, Roman Catholics who actually ARE Catholic have a right to a Church led by leaders who are in communion with the Holy See. The Church is not, thank God, a democracy and it ought not to behave as though the iron rule of 50% + 1 is any trustworthy guide in moral matters.

105 posted on 05/03/2002 9:42:21 PM PDT by BlackElk
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To: history_matters
BTTT
106 posted on 05/03/2002 9:42:22 PM PDT by Dajjal
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To: sinkspur
How about allowing gay priests to marry? ; )
107 posted on 05/03/2002 9:43:39 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler
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To: history_matters
BTW, the word "celibate" simply means "unmarried." The vow of celibacy is a vow not to wed; the vow of chastity is the vow not to fool around.
108 posted on 05/03/2002 9:58:49 PM PDT by Dajjal
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Comment #109 Removed by Moderator

To: Cicero
I pray for the Catholic Church and Catholics each day ... hoping all will face this head on ... and the result will be the return of the traditional church ... even to the Latin Mass.

Though I attended a Catholic Prep School during high school ... I am not Catholic. I belong to the Episcopal Church ... which because it has FALLEN to the liberal agenda in the last thirty years [esp. the last 20 years] ... has almost completely destroyed itself.

110 posted on 05/03/2002 10:36:05 PM PDT by patricia
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Comment #111 Removed by Moderator

To: sinkspur
On second thought, it would be verrrrry interesting indeed if the AmChurch liberals were to get what they have passionately desired for 24 years now: the resignation of John Paul II. The scenario might go something like this as the best pope since Pope St. Pius X announces his retirement:

This just in: Pope John Paul II has announced that he will retire from the papacy effective upon the convening of a conclave to determine the policy of his successor and the election of his successor. The pope said: "My heart is broken by the condition of Holy Mother the Church in the United States and a few isolated locations elsewhere where notions of "progress" have replaced the truth of Jesus Christ. Twenty years ago, armed with the information that has recently come to light, I would have eagerly embraced the responsibility as universal pastor to remove the offenders from their positions in the Church and find worthy successors to reverse the damage they have done."

"I am, unfortunately old beyond my years and broken by the infirmity of my health. The circumstances require that I lay down the wonderful but crushing burdens of serving the servants of God while my faculties remain and I am able to do so. The Church in this hour of crisis must have a pope, not only thoroughly orthodox in belief but thoroughly vigorous in his exercise of authority to root out the evils which are choking the Church of Jesus Christ, compel the obedience of the rebellious in the ranks of clergy and hierarchy and set the Church firmly on the path of genuine renewal according to the Teaching Magisterium and wisdom of all who have gone before us."

"I trust the members of the Sacred College of Cardinals, most of whom it has been my privilege to raise to that honor, to enact a strict and effective policy to deal with disobedience as well as sexual profligacy and dereliction of hierarchical duty, and to elect as our successor one who has the capability, determination, and doctrinal spine to confront for the foreseeable future this latest coordinated effort within and without by those who would exercise their enmity toward the Mystical Body of Christ."

"Make no mistake. We will govern firmly and decisively until that conclave. We will resume our status as cardinal upon our papal resignation and we exempt ourself and any future resigned pontiff from the age restriction on participation and voting imposed by Pope Paul VI.

"We have ordered the formal excommunication of a list of individual members of the clergy and hierarchy because of their respective roles in the current crises of disobedience and disordered sexual abuse. The list will be provided later today. The lifting of these excommunications, should that ever occur, is reserved to the Holy See alone.

"We have also accepted the resignations of Roger Cardinal Mahoney, Bernard Cardinal Law, Edward Cardinal Egan, Archbishop Rembert Weakland, Archbishop Daniel Pilarczyk, Bishop Thomas Daily and 43 other diocesan ordinaries in the United States. The full preliminary list will be announced later today, together with the names of their successors. Those of them who have been cardinals will no longer serve as such and will be ineligible for conclave. Their priestly faculties are hereby suspended pending further investigation and until further notice. The successors of the resigned cardinals will themselves be simultaneously designated as cardinals before any ceremony may be held to enable them to participate in conclave.

"We hereby order the abolition of the American seminaries, their replacement by four regional seminaries to be administered from the Vatican by Dario Castrillon de Hoyos and the Sacred Congregation for Priests until a new archdiocese of American seminaries is established and its ordinary appointed. There will be no faculty or administrative tenure and, due to the abolition of the existing seminaries, none will be honored. Cardinal Castrillon de Hoyos knows our mind and will carry out this reform immediately. The newly appointed archbishop for American seminaries will also be responsible for enforcing Ecclesia Dei and compelling within that nation obedience and submission by theologians and institutions of higher education claiming to be Catholic.

"We hereby reinstitute the disciplinary measures imposed in Pope St. Pius X's 1907 encyclical Pascendi Domenici Gregis and all of the provisions of administrative discipline ordered therein to combat the modernist heresy. Any papal act since 1907 to the date hereof cancelling or suspending those measures is or are hereby removed and abolished.

"Be not afraid."

[I am sure that I am not adept at papal cadence but I have no doubt of the outcome, if that were the essence of a resignation message or that his successor would make his enemies long for the "good old days" when he served.]

112 posted on 05/03/2002 10:38:04 PM PDT by BlackElk
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To: history_matters
Cardinal Bevilacqua bump to the top!
113 posted on 05/03/2002 10:39:19 PM PDT by Salvation
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To: WVNan
Do you mean that the prefix "oxy" means "chaste?"
114 posted on 05/03/2002 10:44:51 PM PDT by BlackElk
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Comment #115 Removed by Moderator

To: history_matters
We need more Cardinal Bevilacquas and, apparently, less of the current crop of "U.S. Catholic theologians and policymakers."

Many of them act as if they're above all that "Pope and Magisterium stuff."

Please pray for theological fidelity within the Church's hierarchy and scholars.

116 posted on 05/03/2002 11:02:12 PM PDT by B Knotts
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To: sit-rep
I know, I know...one who does not act out. But, how the heck can a priest call himself a servant of God and be a fag?

So does someone who has same-sex attraction but feel that it is a sin to act on such attraction kill themself, as someone else sarcastically suggested?

Or do you honestly believe that people choose to have same-sex attraction (as opposed to choosing to act on such attraction)?
117 posted on 05/03/2002 11:06:21 PM PDT by Dimensio
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To: sinkspur
Fornication is contrary to the law of God, regardless of whether it is heterosexual or homosexual. That having been said, sexual intercourse between a man and a woman within marriage and open to the conception of such children as God sees fit to send is quite in accordance with God's law and with the natural law. Homosexual intercourse is no more natural than intercourse between humans and sheep. It is an intrinsically disordered act.

It is intrinsically disordered (and quite prohibited by both Scripture and Tradition) for a man to have intercourse with another man or a woman with another woman whether or not one or both of the participants have become convinced that it may not be so disordered. Objective reality is objective reality. A is A. Likewise as to the sexual abuse of children (which would in most jurisdictions include those up to 17 years of age).

On many of these threads, you have eloquently argued for suppression of the abuse and the enabling of abusers. To welcome into the priesthood those whose sexual orientation is intrinsically disordered while attacking abuse is analogous to campaigning for inclusive attitudes towards bank robbers while professing opposition to bank robbery.

Apropos of another of your posts, the closer the bishops hew to the Bevilaqua position stated here, the less likely they are to be flat, black and glowing in the dark from a universe of attack from those ranging from Catholic to secular to outright enemies of the Church. Cardinal George is a good man but his desire to keep on board those with previous strikes will not stand. If he is not prepared to do what is necessary and purge the lavenders, all of them, from the priesthood, then it is also time for him to go.

118 posted on 05/03/2002 11:09:13 PM PDT by BlackElk
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To: blue jeans
I think you are correct. Now please tell me the objective criteria that will be used to determine who ia a homosexual.Thankyou.
119 posted on 05/03/2002 11:20:04 PM PDT by saradippity
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To: Dimensio
Let me see if I can translate this for you. Same Sex Attraction is obsession with the potential thrill of sexually exploiting the body of another member of your own sex as an essentially masturbatory toy since procreation in such circumstances is not remotely possible. The Church does not approve heterosexual obsessions with the potential thrill of sexually exploiting the body of a member of the opposite sex as an essentially masturbatory toy by purposefully thwarting or attempting to thwart procreation. If someone disagrees with that view, they are politically free to do so since they are politically free not to be Catholic. We are not drafting anyone here.

Nonetheless, fornication with a willing heterosexual partner or adultery, for that matter, while certainly sinful does not take on the additional burden taken on by impossibly inappropriate and intrinsically disordered acts between man and man, woman and woman and/or either with Bowser. What is so hard for those moderns obsessed with a Tidy Bowl sense of equality or "civil rights" to understand?

A man who daydreams about experiencing whatever joys the nether regions of a six-year-old boy may have to offer him is not fit material for the priesthood even though he is not "sexually active." This is not nuclear physics.

120 posted on 05/03/2002 11:24:32 PM PDT by BlackElk
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