Cardinal's words on gay priests surprise scholars

The Philadelphia Inquirer ^ | Fri, May. 03, 2002 | JIM REMSEN

[glockmeister40]

If the catholic church does not come clean on this they'd better expect far fewer people going to church. Who will go there and have their kids molested by a priest? The fewer church goers, the less money for the chruch. That will send a message to the vatican they will not ignore.

If you want decent people to come to church, remove the degenerate priests and put them in prison. It can't get any simpler than that.

[SkyPilot]

Accuracy In Media
Weekly Column

Is Homosexuality Normal?

By Reed Irvine
December 2, 1999

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why have the establishment media ignored the horrible murder of 13-year-old Jesse Dirkhising by two homosexual men in the little town of Rogers, Arkansas? That is a question that was first asked by The Washington Times on October 22, nearly a month after the seventh- grader was found dead after he had been brutally assaulted sexually by Davis Carpenter, 38, and his lover, Joshua Brown, 22, on September 26.

The front-page story in the Times by Joyce Howard Price brought the story, which had been on the front page of the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette on three days, out of Arkansas. But a Nexis search at the end of November found only a half dozen news stories about it outside of Arkansas and a dozen editorials, opinion columns and letters.

The contrast between the coverage of homosexuals murdering a seventh-grader in Arkansas and straights murdering Matthew Shepard, a homosexual college student in Wyoming, was striking. The Washington Post printed over 80 stories about the Shepard case since the murder last year. It has run one 59-word story about the Dirkhising murder, on Saturday, October 30, and that didn’t even appear in the edition that is widely distributed in the greater Washington, D.C. area.

That was eight days after The Washington Times put the story on page one, five days after Les Kinsolving, a Baltimore radio talk show host, had asked White House spokesman Joe Lockhart if President Clinton would comment on the Dirkhising murder as he had on the Shepard case, and a day after the AP finally put the story on the national wire. The Washington Post’s ombudsman explained her paper’s failure to cover the story, saying, in effect, that it doesn’t report murders outside the Washington area unless, like the Shepard murder, the editors think they teach a lesson or are exceptionally newsworthy.

Jonathan Gregg, a senior editor at Time, gave this explanation in a column in Time Daily on line: "The reason the Dirkhising story received so little play is because it offered no lessons. Shepard’s murder touches on a host of complex and timely issues: intolerance, society’s attitudes toward gays and the pressure to conform, the use of violence as a means of confronting one’s demons. Jesse Dirkhising’s death gives us nothing except the depravity of two sick men. There is no lesson here, no moral of tolerance, no hope to be gleaned in the punishment of the perpetrators. To be somehow equated with these monsters would be a bitter legacy indeed for Matthew Shepard."

Anyone who called Brown and Carpenter monsters before they killed Jesse Dirkhising, would have been accused by other homosexuals of gay-bashing. Practicing sadistic sex and seducing young boys is not uncommon among homosexuals. Those who do so are not labeled monsters and cast out. The day Jesse was killed, the annual Folsom Street Leather Fair was being held in San Francisco, celebrating sadomasochism with public demonstrations of whippings and bondage. During the 1993 Gay Rights March on Washington, a government auditorium was put at their disposal to show the tools of "rough sex" like whips, chains, bondage devices and electric cattle prods. There was also a large photo of "fisting," a form of sodomy even more revolting than that done to Jesse.

Seducing young boys is called "inter-generational sex" and is promoted by the North American Man-Boy Love Association. In 1983, Cong. Gerry Studds was censured for having sex with a young page. He wasn’t expelled from Congress, much less the gay community.

Jesse’s murder came at bad time for the homosexuals who were organizing a campaign to get every public school in the country to teach children that homosexuality is normal. They were lining up support from the teachers unions and national associations of school administrators, psychologists, social workers and pediatricians. On Nov. 23, they announced that booklets proclaiming homosexuality normal would be sent to every school district in the nation.

Stories describing the horrible things done to Jesse Dirkhising could have aborted this ambitious project. Homosexuals are very influential in the newsrooms of the establishment media these days. If there was any debate about publicizing the Dirkhising story, arguments like those in Jonathan Gregg’s Time on line column prevailed.

Much of the behavior that homosexuals want children to believe is normal is too revolting to be described in a family newspaper. That is why educators should be shown the police reports on the Dirkhising murder and asked if what they describe meets their definition of normal. The reports can be found on Americansfortruth.org or obtained from AFT, PO Box 4552, Washington, DC 20026.

[chatham]

No ,it didn't ,but I'm sure there is a book somewhere which would cover that topic. I do believe it is a big problem and should be treated with equal severity.

[JoshGray]

No "talking points" involved; just paying agenda-free attention to what's going on.

1) Priests have molested children of both sexes.

2) The Church bought the silence of the victims and hid the guilty.

3) The excuse offered: It's all the homosexual's fault.

4) The solution offered: ban homosexuals from the priesthood.

Sorry, but ain't gonna cut it. A "drunken priest molesting an underaged girl", to borrow an example offered, is just as evil as a sober priest molesting an underaged boy.

As a non-Catholic, the only thing I want to hear is that the Church will be turning both of those molesters over to law-enforcement authorities and they will pay for whatever counseling those victims require.

[Domestic Church]

"It's unfortunate his views represent a divergence from the mainstream. If he were made pope there might be a chance for return of sanity in the Catholic Church."

Then the "mainstream" is in dissent. Actually Cardinal Bevilacqua is standing in with the Magisterium...the rest are the divergence...they have moved away, not he.

[SkyPilot]

No "talking points" involved; just paying agenda-free attention to what's going on.

And then you proceed to give an outline of 4 talking points.

Hey, you forgot to use Power Point, change the font to Times New Roman and fax it to "Gays and Lesbians Against Defamation".

Speaking to your first one

1) Priests have molested children of both sexes.

Did you know that Father Cozzens said on Meet the Press that 95-98% of the abuse victims were teen age boys; and that Father McBrien backed him up on that statistic? You know why? Because it is true.

For what possible reason would you want to shift this fact to the doldrums? Hmmm? Why? On your talking points of 2-4, yes the church covered it up, and yes it is the fault of their leadership. But it was homosexual men who raped these lads, and homosexual men who are sexually perverted. It is a word that Paul used in his letters--perverted. Let's say it a few more times, shall we?

Perverted. Perverted. Perverted.

They should be dealt with. I am sick and tired of people apologizing for them.

[Dr. Scarpetta]

The matter of gays in the priesthood has emerged as a thorny aspect of the abuse scandal. Some Catholic conservatives, noting that many of the reported molestations have involved priests and older boys, have renewed their complaints about the relatively high number of gay priests.

This article mentions Catholic conservatives noting that molestations involve priests and boys. Why the use of the word "conservative?"

[katnip]

Thanks for the bump. So glad you are here! Will have to read thru later.
I'm on my way to a First Holy Communion. We have a Glorious day here in NY for it.
Bless you.

[JoshGray]

Did you know that Father Cozzens said on Meet the Press that 95-98% of the abuse victims were teen age boys;

That's "scapegoating".

All child-molestation is bad and banning homosexuals isn't going to stop all the child-molesting priests.

The Church can ban anyone who ever had a dog named "Spot" for all I care, but they need to tell me how they're going to deal with all child-molesters.

[history_matters]

God bless you too and all who make their First Communion today!

[Domestic Church]

"He may be choosing the good, but...he's giving up what the church considers an aberration, a moral evil."

We are all called to do this, turn from evil to good...nothing different there. Cardinal Bevilacqua is obliquely referring to the Priesthood being the highest "ordo" and hence demanding greater sacrifice. A chaste man carrying such a disordered psychological Cross as homosexuality cannot give that greater sacrifice. There are other religious vocations that such a man can consider (and for the good of the Church should consider them.) First he must recognize his situation and recognize the fullness of his Cross. Our culture is in denial of this Cross and many in the Church have been under the influence of this denial.

[BlackElk]

Homosexual priests who have molested children from six years of age or younger to seventeen years old and other homosexual priests who find themselves caving to whatever temptations they may find in absolutely intrinsically disordered relations with males of any age (which makes them each and every one violators of both basic oaths of the priesthood: obedience and celibacy) are being identified by the Roman Catholic Church and removed from the priesthood. That is Catholic business and no one else's.

If these faithless and perverted priests are ALSO violating the legitimate secular law (malum in se which prohibits and punishes acts evil in and of themselves), they can be charged, arrested, incarcerated, tried, convicted and punished whether the offense is molesting six-year olds, seventeen year-olds, or robbing banks or violating health regulations. That is the state's business and therefore the business of all taxpayers.

That lavender mafia which exists outside the Church structure can also mind its own business which most certainly does not include who may or may not be practicing priests of the Roman Catholic Church.

See, we, as Catholics refrain from sticking our noses into who runs the local Lamda Legal Defense Fund or chapter of the North American Man Boy Love Association and the lavenders keep their noses, inter alia, out of matters Catholic. For the lavenders to butt in would be just another case of ignoring what is supposed to go where. Animal lovers need not apply either. Call it scapegoating all you like, but RCs do not have to put up with the narcissistic demands for attention by practitioners of the love that once dared not speak its name but cannot nowadays shut its yap. Internally, duly constituted Churchg authority can and ought to purge this menace relentlessly. See the First Amendment.

[Domestic Church]

"What's IS the difference?"

One can offer up in sacrifice a "good"(marriage & family) in order that a greater good(chaste celibacy of the Priesthood) is attained while the other is unable due to psychological disorder to reach that level of sacrifice.

[Domestic Church]

"Can someone here tell me how that differs from the calling that STRAIGHT people are asked to embrace?"

Again, it has to do with the level of sacrifice. A straight man gives up the good (and the lifelong Sacramental Graces inherent)of Marriage for the greater good of the Priesthood. The chaste gay man cannot make the same sacrifice(think in terms of a life long accumulation of Sacramental Grace and the transmission of Faith onto the next generation and the Sacramental graces from that generation and so on...it is an enormous amount...remember -"To God, all points in time are present in their immediacy."CCC) Peace,

[JoshGray]

If these faithless and perverted priests are ALSO violating the legitimate secular law (malum in se which prohibits and punishes acts evil in and of themselves), they can be charged, arrested, incarcerated, tried, convicted and punished whether the offense is molesting six-year olds, seventeen year-olds, or robbing banks or violating health regulations. That is the state's business and therefore the business of all taxpayers.

I'm glad you think so. The Church, up to and including now, doesn't.

What I'm saying, and this may or may not be the homosexual groups' point, is that focussing on one group implies that the Church will otherwise go on, business as always, for everything else.

That's not acceptable. I don't care if homosexuals or pedophiles or 'horny heterosexuals who simply found the altar-boy handy' did .1% or 99.9% of the molestations -- I want to hear the Church talk about what they're going to do with 100% of the molesters. All the rest of it is a dodge.

[A. Pole]

Strange that a Catholic cardinal would condemn someone who gives up something bad for something good. So what is the celibate homosexual to do? Go out and kill himself?

Whoa! He should stay celibate (or maybe try the therapy) instead of entering the seminary. This is a practical issue. The heterosexual seminarian is not advised to live in one building with the nuns - the homosexual seminarians living in close proximity to other young men will be exposed to the great temptations and many of them will fail. Such situation is not good for them and is not good for the Church.

If a person with uncurable homoseuxal tendencies wants to live more religious life he can follow some semi-monastic rule under good supervision and guidance (like Tertiary or Third Order for example).

[SkyPilot]

You can put the word all in BOLD all you like--but you dance away from the hell these boys went through at the hands of homosexuals.

Homosexuals Target Children

[JoshGray]

So it's acceptable to you that a priest does a little girl?

[SkyPilot]

All the rest of it is a dodge.

You seem to be pretty good at it.

[SkyPilot]

So it's acceptable to you that a priest does a little girl?

Well, Mr. Josh Gray has a "When did you stop beating your wife?" response......

Now we really get to see your dodging skills in action--don't we Mr. Apologist.

No. I have little girls. It is not acceptable for girls to be abused--and you know it. What a ridiculous thing to even assert--but I guess it is time for you to pound the table some more.

This is about homosexuals who have raped boys--and homosexuals want to run away from it.

Job 5:2 - Resentment kills a fool, and envy slays the simple.