Cardinal's words on gay priests surprise scholars

The Philadelphia Inquirer ^ | Fri, May. 03, 2002 | JIM REMSEN

[Lancey Howard]

Cardinal Anthony M. Bevilacqua's sweeping rejection of gay men becoming priests diverges from mainstream thinking by U.S. Catholic theologians and policymakers, a range of church scholars said in interviews this week.
The cardinal's views reflect an antipathy toward homosexuality that is found in the Catholic catechism, but his statements about banning even celibate gay priests surprised most of the 14 Catholic theologians and other experts contacted for comment. Two of the 14 voiced support.

...diverges from mainstream thinking by U.S. Catholic theologians and policymakers.

The Roman Catholic Church is self-destructing faster than I would ever have imagined.

If the past year was not enough to order a wake-up call for Church leadership, then the Church is doomed.

[history_matters]

I think we should raid the Episcopal and Lutheran Chuches for men like Ryland and R.J. Neuhaus. Set up a fund and pay them a bonus to jump to our "club" I meant that as a joke, but on second thought, a darn good idea.! (patting self on back).

Hey! I'm with you on that one. (patting you on back!)

[sinkspur]

"When a heterosexual celibate chooses to become a celibate in the priesthood," the cardinal said, "he's taking on a good - that is, his own desire to become a priest - and he's giving up a very good thing, and that is, a family and children that could follow. That would not be true of a homosexually oriented candidate. He may be choosing the good, but... he's giving up what the church considers an aberration, a moral evil."

On the contrary, I thought giving up an evil for a good...was a good thing.Just read that statement again:

He may be choosing the good, but...he's giving up what the church considers an aberration, a moral evil.

Strange that a Catholic cardinal would condemn someone who gives up something bad for something good. So what is the celibate homosexual to do? Go out and kill himself?

Bevilacqua's strange theology is contradicted by Cardinal Francis George of Chicago, who said "how will we know who is homosexual and who is not, if they are celibate?"

Fr. Donald Cozzens is close to the truth when he says there are 30-50% of priests who are homosexual. Only, you won't know, because they are celibates.

Bevilacqua's position may be adopted in his diocese, but it won't be part of the statement coming out of Dallas in June.

[american colleen]

The problem is that many of the people beating up on the Church refuse to see the link, just as they won't see that AIDs is mainly a homosexual disease in any country with quality medical care.

Barbra! Streisand types. (whatever that means...)

Seriously, this country is all messed up. Everyone is afraid to be called some kind of "phobe" and the Catholic Church went politically correct in the 1970s. They forgot their mission and now they are cowed by the thought of drag queens picketing churches and throwing condoms at newly ordained priests and their "reputation"... well, looks like they reaped what they sowed.

You know, I remember when the homosexuals threw condoms at the newly ordained priests at the Holy Cross Cathedral in Boston a few years ago - Cardinal Law's Cathedral. It was sickening, gross and HARDLY REPORTED! But, eventually it would be reported and people would start to understand the agenda at work.

[Cicero]

It's payback time. The perverts in the major media have tried to blow up and distort this scandal in order to weaken the Church and get it out of the way of their sexual agendas. But in the long run the effect of this scandal is likely to be the opposite of what they hoped and planned. Instead of women priests, married priests, and anything goes on the sexual front, the Church will tighten up and enforce its traditional morality, which the liberal dissenters have been putting into question for the past thirty years.

[sinkspur]

The assumption that there is no difference between a "gay" celibate and a "stright" celibate has just been shown to us all too clearly.

What's IS the difference, Robby, if they are both celibate? How do you know who is gay and who is straight in the priesthood, if they are both celibate? One likes striking floral arrangements and the other doesn't?

[RobbyS]

In another place having to do with talking aboiut welching--sorry if I offen your ancestors--on the Geoghsn settlement, I faciosuly suggested that Law should sell the cathedral to some real estate developer, apply some of the money to thesettlement, and use the rest to buy a very large tent to take on the road. More of course for organ and choir robes.

[WVNan]

Just an observation, but it appears on the surface of things that a chaste homosexual is an oxymoron.

[saradippity]

I think all lay Catholics should demand those statistics as well as the degree of offense committed.

I personally know a priest who went to jail for offenses alleged by some teen age girls,went to jail for ten years,who is now being considered for more severe action in Rome.

In the "olden days", the original charges,if we lay prople would have confessed them, would have gotten all of us a couple af decades of the rosary for petting with clothes in tact.Because of some draconion action taken by our legislators over another matter,he faced a possible life sentence. He was young and was convinced by the prosecuting attornies to plea bargain. He did,we would have received a penance of 2 Hail Mary's for "copping a feel".

Meanwhile we have had pederasts and active homosexual priests (that means they put their penises in someones rectum),sashaying around. Several of the pederasts did get jail sentences but the majority of active homosexual priests just stand up Sunday after Sunday telling us that we must be hospitable and non-judgemental,blah,blah.

By the way does anyone know how Cardinal Mahoney is doing?

[Senator Pardek]

Excellent article.

At one point I believed it to be the natural choice for a gay man who was serious about his Catholicism to become a priest - he could both serve the Church, and not commit acts that go against the Bible's teachings.

For obvious reasons, I no longer feel that way (Disclaimer - I'm not Catholic).

[RobbyS]

How do you know who is gay and who is straight in the priesthood, if they are both celibate? Well, one thing is sure, your won't find t out by giving them psychological tests or running them by a shrink. With their presuppositions, the shrinks are more likely to weed out the straight guys. The big thing is the "IF" Maybe we tempt them with pretty women and the guys who behave normally we keep? :-).

[Askel5]

I read this on Cardinal Bevilacqua and thought you all should see the gay-sharks circling him and painting him as some misbegotten loon

Cheers, from a resident Loon fresh from the shelling on on the War Weary Prostitutes thread.

I thank God I've been so blessed as to be surrounded by family, friends, associates, teachers and religious who belied "disordered desires" as the quintessential human condition!

[Askel5]

(Disclaimer - I'm not Catholic).

Tell it to the Holy Spirit who left his seal on you.

[sinkspur]

Here's what the Catholic Catechism has to say about homosexuals:

2359Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

Can someone here tell me how that differs from the calling that STRAIGHT people are asked to embrace?

I'm not defending active homosexuals. But, I know many priests, and I suspect some of them are homosexual. But, I will never know for sure because they are celibate, and love the Lord with all their hearts.

I will lay considerable coin on the table that Bevilacqua will never repeat his bizarre comparison between "good" heterosexuals and "evil" homosexuals. Orientation, in and of itself, is not determinative of anything.

[blue jeans]

re: Character does count.

Sure does. Although, to take a birds eye view... what's equally (actually more) important is what type of character. And what is morally right and wrong? Is there truth and what is it?

We've got to come back to the word of God (the entire Bible) and it clearly states in both the old and new Testament that God hates the act of homosexuality. He loves all people... but hates sin. And it's our sin that gets in the way.... everyone of us (Rom 3).

Sounds like the problem has been that folks aren't using God's word to determine what the church's view should be. If they would, there wouldn't even be a discussion (about such a black and white matter).

Do people think that just because Jesus didn't teach on it that it makes that behaviour ok? Or do they think that the Holy Spirit who spoke through Paul was not the one and the same God who revealed himself through Jesus?

The problem with the religious liberals is that they want to pick and choose what parts of the religion they like. It's still that same rebellious nature in the heart of a man that defies God and tries to do it 'MY WAY' like Sinatra used to sing.

If we deviate from the Word of God, then all bets are off. Things quickly degrade into moral relativism. And we all know where that leads. The way that a man thinks is right... leads to death.

[Fred Mertz]

What do you have against celibacy for the priesthood?

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Yaaayyy!!!!! Another h_m bump! So glad you're here:)

[RobbyS]

Fr. Donald Cozzens is close to the truth when he says there are 30-50% of priests who are homosexual. Only, you won't know, because they are celibates. But how you do you know they are celibate? My dad once asked a priest who was a friend of his how he handled the lack of sex. He laughed and said, "I take a lot of cold showers and raid the refrigerator a lot! This is why I like to bowl, to keep my weight down."

[uncbob]

The debate about gays is part of a "long-term discussion" within the church, Father Clifford said, and "I always bet on the Holy Spirit to see how it comes out."

What the hell kind of a statement is that ?
either it is or it isn't. What is this waiting to see how it comes out . The Holy Spirit is keeping it a mystery
I can't believe they make statements like this.