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To: sinkspur
Homosexual acts place one outside of the grace of Christ, but not outside the Church.

Whoa. You'd have to 'splain that one to me, if you've the patience.

And isn't openly saying "Ptui! on God's declared law of sexuality!" excommunicable?

Dan

97 posted on 05/06/2002 1:47:54 PM PDT by BibChr
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To: BibChr
If you are a baptized Catholic, essentially you are always a member of the Church even if you have fallen away through sin. Homosexual or lesbian acts are considered mortal sins which disturb one's relation to God sacramentally in Catholicism. They are barred from "full communion" in the Church. The spiritual nature of the person is considered in the total context of eternity (time-wise). Sinners can still be considered part of the Church even when they are in the sinful state. Theologically, it's understood that God always makes available to them sufficient grace to repent. In her case, presumably, she hasn't done that yet. But she is still connected spiritually with the mission of the Church on earth and the "communion of saints." Theoretically and actually, people are praying for sinners (including this lesbian) to repent and so forth all the time. The baptized person, including the serious sinner, is not understood as entirely separated from their prior sacramental life and confessions of faith. So the "grace" is available, but in the divine mystery of its transmission, the Almighty is waiting for her response.
100 posted on 05/06/2002 1:57:47 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: BibChr
Homosexual acts place one outside of the grace of Christ, but not outside the Church.
Whoa. You'd have to 'splain that one to me, if you've the patience.

And isn't openly saying "Ptui! on God's declared law of sexuality!" excommunicable?

We have all sinned, and in effect all said Ptui on God's declared law. Most of us probably have some sort of sexual sin in our past, and certainly we have all lied, or gossiped, failed to honor our mother and father, etc. All these things are times where we have said Ptui on God's law.

Sexual sins aren't any different here, just more common perhaps, and in the case of homosexuality, more serious. Any sin is contrary to obedience to Christ, right? Once you are Baptized Catholic, you are a Catholic. You will likely sin at some point after that, barring an early death. Despite that sin you remain a Catholic because you still bear the mark of baptism. It may be the equivalent of saying you are a CINO (Catholic in Name Only) in a sense, but your sin cannot erase the mark of baptism. It does, however, bring you a warm and toasty afterlife.

patent  +AMDG

104 posted on 05/06/2002 2:23:14 PM PDT by patent
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To: BibChr
And isn't openly saying "Ptui! on God's declared law of sexuality!" excommunicable?

It is sin. Excommunication is an external action separating a Catholic from the Church for certain specific actions. It is essentially a public sanctioning of a person. In the past, lifting an excommunication was reserved to a bishop (in the case of procuring an abortion, that can now be done by a priest in the confessional).

Homosexual acts, while heinous and grievously sinful, do not merit a public separation from the Church.

Does adultery, in your mind, merit excommunication?

If everything that one thinks is terrible becomes subject to excommunication, then the sanction loses its "hammer value."

111 posted on 05/06/2002 2:44:31 PM PDT by sinkspur
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