Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Victor Davis Hansen: On Hating Israel
The National Review ^ | 05/07/2002 | Victor Davis Hansen

Posted on 05/07/2002 8:00:14 PM PDT by krogers58

Europe, the United Nations, many elites in America, and, of course, the entire Arab and Islamic worlds, are against Israel. Their venom arises from three pretexts.

1. Occupation?

Israel purportedly occupies land that is not theirs — a travesty said to be wholly unique on the world stage, and so deserving of special and universal condemnation. Yet contra the Palestinians' constant lament, there is a great deal of occupied territory in the world today — tragedies that completely evade the moral radar of the United Nations and are unimportant to any of the self-proclaimed moralists of the Arab world.

Since 1974, a good part of Greek Cyprus has been under Turkish control — the homes and property of the Greek-speaking Cypriots confiscated, the native population expelled, and the island partitioned. The entire country of Tibet has been annexed by China, quite illegally and without much complaint from any besides a few in the United States.

What happened to Lebanon? The Syrians have occupied the entire country, where Palestinians find themselves helots, and the Lebanese themselves are little more than butlers to their Syrian overlords. Kurdistan is the property of three different countries; the Balkans are a mess with literally millions of ethnic Slavs, Albanians, Serbs, and Greeks living in lands controlled by others. A quarter million, not three thousand, have died there in the last fifteen years. What gives Russia the right to hang on to Japanese islands they confiscated in the closing weeks of World War II? Terrorist organizations — similar to Hamas and Hezbollah — in Ireland and Spain seek similarly to blow people up to claim for themselves an autonomous and hereditary homeland.

What is different in many of these cases is that the Tibetans did not try to invade China on three occasions. Greek Cypriots did not, in a series of wars, try to push all the Turks into the Mediterranean. Nor did the Lebanese seek to storm Amman, lose a war against Syria, and thereby lose the autonomy of their homeland. Clearly there is something else going on in Palestine besides the world's moral indignation over the principle of occupied lands.

2. Borders and Refugees?

Wars have a bad history of displacing residents. I doubt whether millions of Germans will ever get back any of their land in what is now eastern France and western Poland. Thousands of Russians have been finding themselves increasingly unwanted in the Baltic states. Will Ionian Greeks — residents of the Western coast of Turkey since the 11th century B.C. — ever return to their homes after the brutal expulsions of the 1920s? Millions of Islamic Pakistanis and Indian Hindus find themselves living in artificial countries in which they were not born.

By any fair measure of ancient or modern history, the situation in Palestine is not unique. Indeed, Israel is trying to be far more just to its defeated enemies than most victors — whether Turks, Poles, French, or Chinese — have been in the past. I omit questions of body counts and collateral damage. Pace the United Nations and the Palestine-propaganda machine, the real killing in the world today is going on in Central Africa, the Amazon basin, the former Soviet Union, and India. What is amazing is not that Palestinians have died in the fighting, but that in comparison to urban fighting in Chechnya, Mogadishu, and Panama, so few have perished. In that regard, Mr. Arafat's invocation of Stalingrad is as historically silly as it is obscene to the memory of those hundreds of thousands who perished on both sides in the winter of 1942-43.

3. Racism?

A constant charge — most recently and repugnantly made by a freed Mr. Arafat — is that the Israelis bear a racial grudge against the Palestinians. He has alleged that, like Nazis, Israelis seek to cleanse non-Jews from the West Bank. The U.N. itself for years tried to pass resolutions equating Zionism with racism. Yet by any fair measure the Israeli government is light-years ahead of the Arab world in terms of racial and religious tolerance. Privately, Arabs would concede that they are treated far better in Tel Aviv than any Jew would be now in Cairo, Baghdad, Damascus, or Amman. We do not read in the Jerusalem Post, as we do in the Arab dailies, that Palestinians are "monkeys" and "vampires." Nor is there a sizable literature in Israel — as there is in the Arab world — devoted to proving their enemies are subhuman. Real racism and hatred exist in this present conflict, but they are expressed almost entirely by Arabs, not Jews. Had a paper in Tel Aviv alleged that Arabs drink blood and are related to primates, the world's outrage would be second only to the moral indignation in Israel itself.

If Israel is guilty of little more than defending itself, and of not allowing its defeated adversaries their land back until the Jewish state is guaranteed security, what then really is at the heart of the world's hatred against the Israelis? The answer is rather transparent and can be summarized easily by five general considerations.

1. Realpolitik

We must never forget the crass self-interest of states — a trait that the Greek historians felt was at the heart of most conflict, albeit often crudely disguised by pretexts such as "justice" and "fairness." There may be nearly half a billion Arab-speaking peoples. Millions of Islamic citizens reside now in the West. Just a few hundred miles of the Mediterranean separate Europe from medieval regimes in Libya, Algeria, and Syria. The importance of the Arab world vis — vis Israel, then, can be gauged in an array of cultural, economic, and political fears and opportunities — from the size of expatriate populations to profits to be made from expansive trade and enormous markets. Were Israel large — say 400 million Jews — and the Arabs around them scarce (perhaps 10 million), then we would see dozens of U.N. resolutions condemning Mr. Arafat, for everything from murdering U.S. diplomats in the past to his present complicity in ordering suicide bombing.

2. Oil

Somewhere between one-quarter and one-third of the world's oil reserves are beneath Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Iraq. For the next 30 years or so, Europe, the United States, and Japan must depend on this steady supply of imported petroleum. And while these Western economic powerhouses obviously try to seek alternative suppliers in Russia, South America, and Norway, the fact remains that for the foreseeable future, in such an interconnected global economy, Middle Eastern oil — and its unstable and unsavory caretakers — are essential to the world's economic health. We have seen various efforts by these regimes to disrupt such supplies — from Saudi Arabia's oil embargo of 1974 to Iran's bombing of tankers in the Persian Gulf to Saddam Hussein's torching of the Kuwaiti oil fields — and so realize that prejudices, internecine wars, and inexplicable feuds at any hour can incite all these autocracies. Far easier — and cheaper — to keep silent about their routine horrors, or indeed actively abet their often absurd agendas.

Moreover, the income from oil brings these dictatorships Western technological expertise and military hardware — and hence the sympathy of millions in the West, who depend on selling them everything from cell phones and computers to jets and drill bits. The thousands of Europeans and Americans who buy, trade, and ship crude oil can hardly risk the ire of their own benefactors. So they usually cloak their crass utilitarianism in more patriotic slogans of "national interest" and "economic security." Had Israel 25 percent of the world's oil reserves and her Arab neighbors none, the European Union would now be damning the Palestine bombers as the thugs and terrorists they are.

3. Terrorism

The majority of the world's international terrorists of the last 30 years — the very worst killers who blow up international jets, storm the Olympic Games, murder Western diplomats, storm embassies, take hostages, and vaporize civilians at work — have been in the service of radical Islamic and Arab causes. That is not to say that Japanese, Irish, Basque, Malaysian, white racist, and Armenian terrorists have not murdered frequently — only that Arab assassins have been far more likely to attack on a global scale, especially against Europe and America. Since at least the 1967 war, the world has known that supporting Israel might well result in the killing of diplomats, athletes, tourists, and soldiers in their sleep, at the office, and on vacation. In contrast, had the Mossad been murdering Frenchmen, Americans, and Germans all over the world, politicians would now be scrambling to assuage Israeli discontent and seeking to ascertain the "root causes" of such grievances.

4. Anti-Semitism

We do not quite know why anti-Semitism persists in a supposedly educated and modern Western world at a time when assimilation, integration, and intermarriage are ever more common and a crass secularism has blurred distinctions among the major religions. Traditional stereotypes and hatred, of course, are always passed on to each new generation; and we must never forget the power of envy that highly educated, competent, and professional Jews incur from the less gifted and less successful. Nevertheless, the current rise of anti-Semitism is quite blatant — especially the shameful blasphemy in the indiscriminate use of the words "holocaust" and "genocide," and in the sudden reappearance of swastikas next to Stars of David. I am a 48-year-old Swedish-American Protestant and have expressed support for Israel for 30 years — but never once before had I been asked, "Are you Jewish?" This past year alone, however, that question — usually framed as an accusation — has arisen at least 50 times — along with printed and electronic invective that would make Mr. Goebbels proud.

Here we must be frank: The Arab world bears a great deal of the blame for the current new hatred. Islamic prejudice is the engine that drives European anti-Semitism. The state-run newspapers in Egypt and Saudi Arabia are no different from those in Germany in the 1930s. Saudi diplomats and religious figures unapologetically voice loathing right out of Mein Kampf — itself a bestseller in parts of the Arab world. The truth is that had the Palestinians been attacked and won four wars against the Israelis, and so right now found themselves occupying the state of Israel, much of the world would say, "More power to you for defeating and occupying those pesky Jews."

5. Aristocratic guilt and the cult of the underdog

With few worries about hunger or drudgery, and with ever-increasing material appetites, many Westerners have used that indulgence of affluence to condemn the very culture that produces such a good life. Nihilism, cynicism, and sarcasm are the symptoms we see among our bored and guilt-ridden elite, who belittle both the capitalists who manage their wealth and the arms and backs of the purportedly crass middling classes who actually produce it.

Radical environmentalism, romantic multiculturalism, and authoritarian utopianism all reflect a rather smug idealization of the disadvantaged and nature in the raw. Central to this creed is identification with the supposedly anti-Western world of the universal downtrodden — and, really, almost anyone or anything else in the past three centuries that has come up against the juggernaut of the dominant culture of Western industrial capitalism.

Thus, for some Westerners, it is not so much the facts of the last 50 years in the Middle East that drives their hatred of Israel. Nor the plenitude of Arabs and paucity of Israelis nor, perhaps, even worry over the price of gas for their Volvos and SUVs — nor their fear of bombs and germs, nor envy of Jews. Rather, the Palestinians are weak and the Israelis are strong. So — like the hosts of disadvantaged in America — Mr. Arafat and his minions are deserving of injured-party status as their birthright, getting a pass from liberal censure to mouth hatred and prejudice. In turn, the Israelis — almost like white affluent Republicans in America — are thought to be so strong and confident precisely because they are exploiters, and thus are held collectively responsible for the oppression and current plight of their long-suffering "victims."

Partly Marxist, partly ignorant, and mostly naive, these insufferable and affluent European and American leftists see their solidarity with Palestinians as inseparable from their own embarrassed personas. It is easy, cheap — and safe — to right the injustices of the world by marching, shouting, and signing petitions, rather than by living among, marrying, seeing daily, or materially aiding the "other." It can all be done in a few seconds on campus, on television, or in the suburb — without any true self-introspection about what really ensures one's own rather comfortable material existence in the university, media, or government.

The truth is that Westerners' support or hatred for Israel increasingly tell us far more about ourselves than they do about the real situation in the Middle East.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-90 next last
Searched for it and couldn't find it posted....so here goes
1 posted on 05/07/2002 8:00:14 PM PDT by krogers58
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: krogers58
bump for later reading!
2 posted on 05/07/2002 8:07:07 PM PDT by anniegetyourgun
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: krogers58
I'm glad you found it. It's a great article.
3 posted on 05/07/2002 8:29:50 PM PDT by RandyRep
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: krogers58; Onyx; Alouette; Lent; Knighthawk; a_Turk, JohnHuang2, Dennisw...
Thanks for the post, krogers58.
4 posted on 05/07/2002 8:34:38 PM PDT by TopQuark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: krogers58
Partly Marxist, partly ignorant, and mostly naive, these insufferable and affluent European and American leftists see their solidarity with Palestinians as inseparable from their own embarrassed personas

A one-sentence description of most of my professors. Well done, VDH.

5 posted on 05/07/2002 8:35:23 PM PDT by Anamensis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: krogers58
Pretty good article. The parallel with Greek-Cypriots is not a good one though. There was more than meets the eye involved. Also Cypriots are not into blowing themselves up. They'd rather work and prosper and enjoy life. Same goes for the Turks. The Palis are not the same breed of human.
6 posted on 05/07/2002 8:52:19 PM PDT by aristotleman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: krogers58
The truth is that Westerners' support or hatred for Israel increasingly tell us far more about ourselves than they do about the real situation in the Middle East.

Man, I wish I had said that last line.....clarity defined.

BTTT

7 posted on 05/07/2002 9:20:43 PM PDT by wardaddy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TopQuark
BTTT, thanks for the ping.
8 posted on 05/07/2002 9:30:40 PM PDT by monkeyshine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: TopQuark,Travis McGee,onedoug,g'nad,CyberCowboy777,American in Israel,Watchin,JasonC,NorthernRigh
PING LIST BUMP!
9 posted on 05/08/2002 1:37:42 AM PDT by dennisw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: TopQuark
Bttt. Thanks.
10 posted on 05/08/2002 6:52:23 AM PDT by SJackson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: dennisw
VDH BUMP...
11 posted on 05/08/2002 7:04:53 AM PDT by g'nad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: krogers58
To contend that either side in this domenstic dispute is without sin or provocation is preposterous.

To assert that Israel has justifiable dominance because of military superiority is to concede that a military defeat of Israel will be a justifiable transfer of dominion.

To cite a hatred of Israel based upon Marxist principles ignores Israel's Socialist Theocracy.

There never has and never will will never be peace in the region. It even excluded itself from Pax Romana. Our best bet it to quarantine the violence and then ignore it.

12 posted on 05/08/2002 7:18:01 AM PDT by Diogenes of Sinope
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: krogers58
This guy sums it all up pretty neatly; great article. He's especially spot on about the inherent guilt felt by so many of the elites in Western Civilization. It's a side product of the Judeo-Christian ethic.
13 posted on 05/08/2002 7:28:48 AM PDT by jpl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Diogenes of Sinope
Stop lying. Israel is hardly a theocracy. Zionist by nature yes. Theocracy no.
14 posted on 05/08/2002 8:03:21 AM PDT by dennisw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Diogenes of Sinope
There never has and never will will never be peace in the region. It even excluded itself from Pax Romana. Our best bet it to quarantine the violence and then ignore it.

How amusing coning from you since you don't even follow your own advice to ignore the MidEast. All you post about here is about Israel/MidEast when there are so many other conservative issues.

15 posted on 05/08/2002 8:17:03 AM PDT by dennisw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Diogenes of Sinope
Our best bet it to quarantine the violence and then ignore it.

Trouble is, both sides want the United States right in the middle of it.

16 posted on 05/08/2002 8:21:21 AM PDT by LarryLied
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: LarryLied
You would have no life if you didn't have Israel and Jews to think about and be agitated about.
17 posted on 05/08/2002 8:23:39 AM PDT by dennisw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Anamensis
Partly Marxist, partly ignorant, and mostly naive, these insufferable and affluent European and American leftists see their solidarity with Palestinians as inseparable from their own embarrassed personas.

Yes, yes, and yes. The "embarrassed persona" idea fits perfectly.

18 posted on 05/08/2002 8:44:29 AM PDT by Harp
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Anamensis
I would find being an atheistic "humanist" embarrassing too!
19 posted on 05/08/2002 9:06:12 AM PDT by dennisw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: dennisw
I am not sure what your ax to grind is, but putting Israel above the US is just crazy.

Perhaps my statement was incomplete. By "ignore it" I mean to say don't get involved, but we must stay vigilant since it is in the interest of both combative parties in the region to drag the US into thier squabble.

I have yet to hear any tangible or measurable reason for our involvement or the expenditure of a single US life on behalf of either party there. Those who sit in the comfort of their homes and offices and advocate the sacrifices of others are beneath contempt.

20 posted on 05/08/2002 11:12:24 AM PDT by Diogenes of Sinope
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Diogenes of Sinope;dennisw
Notice how even saying both Israel and the Arabs see it in their best interest to have America in the middle of their fight (which is a fact) draws the usual personal attacks.
21 posted on 05/08/2002 11:28:59 AM PDT by LarryLied
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: dennisw;windcliff
Thanks as always, d.

windcliff, important article ping!

22 posted on 05/08/2002 11:43:37 AM PDT by onedoug
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Diogenes of Sinope
"...and advocate the sacrifices of others...."

Have you ever seen the film, Key Largo? Sometimes people just have to choose.

23 posted on 05/08/2002 11:56:53 AM PDT by onedoug
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Diogenes of Sinope
To contend that either side in this domestic dispute is without sin or provocation is preposterous.
The ability to string words together makes the preposterous commonplace, witness the sentence that verbalizes the word.
The “palestinians” inherently have the same moral authority as the Israelis... There, another preposterous statement; Quite simple, isn’t it?

To assert that Israel has justifiable dominance because of military superiority is to concede that a military defeat of Israel will be a justifiable transfer of dominion.
A clever preparation for the standard arab trap which is your final statement below: that might makes right only when muslim expansionism wields it.. tres transparent, dude.

To cite a hatred of Israel based upon Marxist principles ignores Israel's Socialist Theocracy.
Another clever assertion, totally unfounded and unsupported by reality. You want a theocracy? Name any muslim state. You want socialism? Try cuba.

There never has and never will will never be peace in the region. It even excluded itself from Pax Romana. Our best bet it to quarantine the violence and then ignore it.
That would be the clever objective of the Murdering Muslim Arabs. Outnumbering the Jews 100 to 1, nothing would please them more than to be left alone to resolve the problem with those pesky Jews.
The only type of odds that the murdering savages can countenance.

24 posted on 05/08/2002 12:01:49 PM PDT by Publius6961
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: onedoug
Thanks for the ping. Good article.
25 posted on 05/08/2002 12:15:10 PM PDT by windcliff
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: krogers58
Interesting article and good post! One thing, I differ with the author on...

We do not quite know why anti-Semitism persists in a supposedly educated and modern Western world at a time when assimilation, integration, and intermarriage are ever more common and a crass secularism has blurred distinctions among the major religions.

For those of us who read and study the Bible, anti-semitism exists for obvious and very practical reasons.

Anti-semitism is Satanic in origin. Jesus will come back when The Jews finally acknowlege Him as their Messiah. This will happen at the end of the Tribulation, where Jesus will return to destroy all of Israel's enemies. Thus will end Satan's reign on Earth.

Taken from this perspective, anti-semitism is emminently practical. If Satan can destroy Israel, by politics or war, he can prevent God's ultimate redemption of Creation and thus prolong his reign. Watch as the UN contuinually condems Israel (no matter what they do) and the whole world begins to line up against Israel. (Including much of organized religion.)

26 posted on 05/08/2002 12:38:07 PM PDT by berned
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Publius6961
To put it in words you might understand;

"We ain't got a dog in that fight"

27 posted on 05/08/2002 12:41:02 PM PDT by Diogenes of Sinope
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: berned
Dear Berned,

You have missed the obvious. All of the Old Testament promises and predictions were abolished and replaced with the New and Everlasting Covenant because the inhabitants of your "Israel" could not live with and within them. The Israel of the New and Everlasting Covenant is not a place, nation or a people. Israel is the aggregate belief in the Resurrection of Christ.

To believe that God is limited by the political machinations in a 3rd world shit hole like Israel by the likes of Arafat and Sharon is blasphemy!!

28 posted on 05/08/2002 12:52:21 PM PDT by Diogenes of Sinope
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Diogenes of Sinope
Diogenes,

What you're talking about is called "Displacement Theology", and no offense, but it's just not scriptural. God's promises to Abraham were UNCONDITIONAL and everlasting. God promised to give Israel to the Jews forever. There are many many Bible scriptures to support this.

Displacement Theology is extremely dangerous, and led to the slaughter of millions and millions of Jews, from the Inquisition to the Holocaust.

29 posted on 05/08/2002 12:59:43 PM PDT by berned
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Diogenes of Sinope
"...in a 3rd world shit hole like Israel

Man of steel, eh? Instructive enough.

30 posted on 05/08/2002 1:17:58 PM PDT by onedoug
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: berned
Dear Berned,

One man's displacement is another man's denial (no not the river in Egypt). It is interesting that, when challenged with logic and fact you seek shelter in cries of anti-semitism and memories of the thrid largest holocaust of the 20th century.

God's gift to Abraham (an Iraqi by birth) was not unconditional. Other Covenants were rescinded by God because the "Chosen" failed to keep up their end of the deal (The Expulsion from Eden, The Great Flood, etc.) The promise to Abraham met the same fate when God sent his Son to establish a New and Everlasting Covenant. Furthermore, the exclusion of Gentiles, as you so openly advocate, was an affront to God and lead to the coming of Christ and the destruction of the Temple. Today's Israel is morally and spiritually bankrupt.

31 posted on 05/08/2002 1:29:33 PM PDT by Diogenes of Sinope
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Diogenes of Sinope
It is interesting that, when challenged with logic and fact you seek shelter in cries of anti-semitism

What logic and fact? How do I "seek shelter"?

There are many scriptures that put the lie to "Displacement Theology". Here is one: From Matthew 24:

His disciples came to him privately and asked, "When will all this take place? And will there be any sign ahead of time to signal your return and the end of the world?"

This is an END TIMES prophesy by Jesus. He tells them about "wars and rumors of wars" "earthquakes in diverse places" etc. Then He says...

14And the Good News about the Kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world,...

This is clearly NOT talking about the period between 32AD and 70AD, when the Temple was destroyed. The Gospel had not gotten to America, for example.

...so that all nations will hear it; and then, finally, the end will come. 15 "The time will come when you will see what Daniel the prophet spoke about: the sacrilegious object that causes desecration standing in the Holy Place"--reader, pay attention!

That's THE TEMPLE! (Which will be rebuilt soon, on the Temple Mount!)

16 "Then those in Judea must flee to the hills...

He's talking about Israel, at the end of the world, NOT Israel in the time of the Apostles...

21For that will be a time of greater horror than anything the world has ever seen or will ever see again.22In fact, unless that time of calamity is shortened, the entire human race will be destroyed.

This is an END TIME prophesy, with Israel back in their land. Judea. The Temple. The land God gave to Abraham's decendants FOREVER.

32 posted on 05/08/2002 1:57:32 PM PDT by berned
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: berned
We are warned many times about false prophets. I reject the apocalyptic utterings of those who have not been validated by time and events. How the John of Revelations got his predictions and halucinations past the Canon committee for inclusion in the New testament is a man made mystery.

As for Abraham and his decendants, many of the non-Jews in the region are the direct decendants of Abraham and Isaac. It is a historical fact that most in the region rejected Judism in favor of Christianity and then Islam.

33 posted on 05/08/2002 2:38:37 PM PDT by Diogenes of Sinope
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Diogenes of Sinope
The prophesies I quoted you in post # 32 were not from John... they were from Jesus Christ.
34 posted on 05/08/2002 2:43:37 PM PDT by berned
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: berned
I don't follow your pshcyo-babble...... How do your dire predictions and selected, out of context quotes validate and excuse the modern state of Israel?
35 posted on 05/08/2002 3:03:32 PM PDT by Diogenes of Sinope
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Diogenes of Sinope
What dire predictions do I make? I didn't post a single thing out of context.
36 posted on 05/08/2002 3:05:07 PM PDT by berned
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: LarryLied
Notice how even saying both Israel and the Arabs see it in their best interest to have America in the middle of their fight (which is a fact) draws the usual personal attacks.

You have the stones to attack my people in the most inane ways? What is your ethic group and religion so I can trash them every day in the same loony way Larry Liar does.

Like I say, Mr. Lied has no life if there is not Israel and Jews to dump his repetitive posts on.

37 posted on 05/08/2002 3:25:07 PM PDT by dennisw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Diogenes of Sinope
I am not sure what your ax to grind is, but putting Israel above the US is just crazy.

Straw man post attempting to put words in my mouth. FLUSH!

38 posted on 05/08/2002 3:26:45 PM PDT by dennisw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: onedoug
You are welcome sir!
39 posted on 05/08/2002 3:32:12 PM PDT by dennisw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: LarryLied
Larry,

You seem to have invoked the ire of dennisw for not buying into the proposition that he and his people are the center of the universe and that everything in that universe is either for their exclusive benefit or an attack upon them.

Maybe the thing that Israel and her supporters can't come to grips with is that, in the greater scheme of things, Israel is really pretty insignificant. If it disappeared tomorrow, almost no one would notice or miss it.

40 posted on 05/08/2002 4:06:36 PM PDT by Diogenes of Sinope
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Diogenes of Sinope
Dare to agree with official US policy that our war on terror is not a war on all Islam and you get called an antisemite around here. Some are frantic to turn the Israel/Arab war into and American/Israeli war against all of Islam.

And that is the last thing America needs. We don't want every Muslim in the world to view all Americans they was they view Jews. Our great-great-great grandkids would be paying the price for that.

41 posted on 05/08/2002 4:33:43 PM PDT by LarryLied
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: Diogenes of Sinope
You seem to have invoked the ire of dennisw for not buying into the proposition that he and his people are the center of the universe and that everything in that universe is either for their exclusive benefit or an attack upon them.

Heheheh... Jews are the center of your universe. This is all you post about here. Same for Larry most of the time.

Nice try clown.

42 posted on 05/08/2002 5:01:05 PM PDT by dennisw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: dennisw
Actually, I participate in different topics under different names. This assists me better in tracking the dialog.

The facts remain. Israel is a nation living off the hand outs and charity of the first world. It is completely incapable of self sufficiency and contributes nothing to the progress and betterment of mankind.

My only worry is that our charity is making us a target to their enemies and is costing more than mere money. We have NOTHING to gain by our association with tem and much to lose.

I hope you can get it through your middle eastern mind set that this does not make me an ally of the Palestinians. My feelings toward them are the same as toward the Israelis.

43 posted on 05/08/2002 6:03:54 PM PDT by Diogenes of Sinope
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Diogenes of Sinope
and contributes nothing to the progress and betterment of mankind

ARAB/ISLAMIC NOBEL WINNERS



19.6% of World's Population.....2 billion

Literature

1957 - Albert Camus
1988 - Najib Mahfooz 1988.

Peace



1978 - Mohamed Anwar El-Sadat
1994 - Yaser Arafat

Chemistry



1990 - Elias James Corey
1999 - Ahmed Zewail

Medicine



1960 - Peter Brian Medawar
1998 - Ferid Mourad

JEWISH NOBEL WINNERS



0.2% OF WORLD'S POPULATION............14.1 Million Jews

Literature



1910 - Paul Heyse
1927 - Henri Bergson
1958 - Boris Pasternak
1966 - Shmuel Yosef Agnon
1966 - Nelly Sachs
1976 - Saul Bellow
1978 - Isaac Bashevis Singer
1981 - Elias Canetti
1987 - Joseph Brodsky
1991 - Nadine Gordimer

World Peace



1911 - Alfred Fried
1911 - Tobias Michael Carel Asser
1968 - Rene Cassin
1973 - Henry Kissinger
1978 - Menachem Begin
1986 - Elie Wiesel
1994 - Shimon Peres
1994 - Yitzhak Rabin

Chemistry



1905 - Adolph Von Baeyer
1906 - Henri Moissan
1910 - Otto Wallach
1915 - Richard Willstaetter
1918 - Fritz Haber
1943 - George Charles de Hevesy
1961 - Melvin Calvin
1962 - Max Ferdinand Perutz
1972 - William Howard Stein
1977 - Ilya Prigogine
1979 - Herbert Charles Brown
1980 - Paul Berg
1980 - Walter Gilbert
1981 - Roald Hoffmann
1982 - Aaron Klug
1985 - Albert A. Hauptman
1985 - Jerome Karle
1986 - Dudley R. Herschbach
1988 - Robert Huber
1989 - Sidney Altman
1992 - Rudolph Marcus
2000 - Alan J. Heeger

Economics



1970 - Paul Anthony Samuelson
1971 - Simon Kuznets
1972 - Kenneth Joseph Arrow
1975 - Leonid Kantorovich
1976 - Milton Friedman
1978 - Herbert A. Simon
1980 - Lawrence Robert Klein
1985 - Franco Modigliani
1987 - Robert M. Solow
1990 - Harry Markowitz
1990 - Merton Miller
1992 - Gary Becker
1993 - Rober Fogel

Medicine



1908 - Elie Metchnikoff
1908 - Paul Erlich
1914 - Robert Barany
1922 - Otto Meyerhof
1930 - Karl Landsteiner
1931 - Otto Warburg
1936 - Otto Loewi
1944 - Joseph Erlanger
1944 - Herbert Spencer Gasser
1945 - Ernst Boris Chain
1946 - Hermann Joseph Muller
1950 - Tadeus Reichstein
1952 - Selman Abraham Waksman
1953 - Hans Krebs
1953 - Fritz Albert Lipmann
1958 - Joshua Lederberg
1959 - Arthur Kornberg
1964 - Konrad Bloch
1965 - Francois Jacob
1965 - Andre Lwoff
1967 - George Wald
1968 - Marshall W. Nirenberg
1969 - Salvador Luria
1970 - Julius Axelrod
1970 - Sir Bernard Katz
1972 - Gerald Maurice Edelman
1975 - David Baltimore
1975 - Howard Martin Temin
1976 - Baruch S. Blumberg
1977 - Rosalyn Sussman Yalow
1978 - Daniel Nathans
1980 - Baruj Benacerraf
1984 - Cesar Milstein
1985 - Michael Stuart Brown
1985 - Joseph L. Goldstein
1986 - Stanley Cohen [& Rita Levi-Montalcini]
1988 - Gertrude Elion
1989 - Harold Varmus
1991 - Erwin Neher
1991 - Bert Sakmann
1993 - Richard J. Roberts
1993 - Phillip Sharp
1994 - Alfred Gilman
1995 - Edward B. Lewis

Physics



1907 - Albert Abraham Michelson
1908 - Gabriel Lippmann
1921 - Albert Einstein
1922 - Niels Bohr
1925 - James Franck
1925 - Gustav Hertz
1943 - Gustav Stern
1944 - Isidor Issac Rabi
1952 - Felix Bloch
1954 - Max Born
1958 - Igor Tamm
1959 - Emilio Segre
1960 - Donald A. Glaser
1961 - Robert Hofstadter
1962 - Lev Davidovich Landau
1965 - Richard Phillips Feynman
1965 - Julian Schwinger
1969 - Murray Gell-Mann
1971 - Dennis Gabor
1973 - Brian David Josephson
1975 - Benjamin Mottleson
1976 - Burton Richter
1978 - Arno Allan Penzias
1978 - Peter L Kapitza
1979 - Stephen Weinberg
1979 - Sheldon Glashow
1988 - Leon Lederman
1988 - Melvin Schwartz
1988 - Jack Steinberger
1990 - Jerome Friedman
1995 - Martin Perl

(Population Info: Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc., Chicago, Ill., Britannica Book of the Year, 1999)
44 posted on 05/08/2002 10:24:39 PM PDT by krogers58
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: krogers58
Albert Camus was Jewish and lived mostly in the French colony on Algeria. So subtract him from the Muslim list.
45 posted on 05/09/2002 5:59:10 AM PDT by dennisw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: krogers58
Peter Brian Medawar and Elias James Corey on the Arab list would be Christian Arabs. Heavy mooooslim representation in peace prizes.
46 posted on 05/09/2002 6:03:19 AM PDT by dennisw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: dennisw
As you may remember, I am an atheist and there's nothing embarassing about being one of the 10% of the world's population who doesn't live in fantasy land. "Humanists," however, are perpetually embarassed ... they too live in a fantasy-land nursing their rosy view of human nature, and are continuously wincing at how humans prove them naive (see leftist attack on church in Colombia yesterday). Since the humanists probably comprise a good 8% of atheists, I count myself among a very exclusive population of folks with no illusions at all.
47 posted on 05/09/2002 7:22:40 AM PDT by Anamensis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: krogers58
You have gone to a lot of work to prove nothing! The state of Israel is not synonymous with the world Jewish population. Your list is comprised primarily of US and Europeans citizens. The many Germans on your list does not extend Godliness or righteousness to Germany's past present or future actions. Israel is no different. It remains a bankrupt, unjust socialistic experiment.
48 posted on 05/09/2002 7:28:03 AM PDT by Diogenes of Sinope
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: Anamensis
Many atheists can be good people. My opinion is that they are good because they take their morals from the religion(s) in their nation. It's hard to pass on a moral atheism to your children. 

A religious education is more likely to morally educate.

49 posted on 05/09/2002 7:40:20 AM PDT by dennisw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: Diogenes of Sinope
Israel is no different. It remains a bankrupt, unjust socialistic experiment.

That's bull. I've been there and it's a great and livable place. It's in the top 10% of nations. 
Israel has economic problems only due the Islamic Jihad attempt to wipe them off the map. This has killed tourism. Blame the evil Islamics for Israel's problems.

50 posted on 05/09/2002 7:43:52 AM PDT by dennisw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-90 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson