Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Germany Had Plan to Take New York in 1900
Yahoo ^ | Wed May 8, 6:52 AM ET | Reuters

Posted on 05/08/2002 6:19:40 AM PDT by Koblenz

BERLIN (Reuters) - Germany under Kaiser Wilhelm had drawn up detailed plans in 1900 for an invasion of the United States centered on attacks on New York City and Boston, according to documents in a military archive published on Thursday.

The weekly newspaper Die Zeit published details from documents it said it uncovered in Germany's official military archives in Freiburg. One plan foresaw a force of 100,000 soldiers transported across the Atlantic on 60 ships.

Beginning in 1897, a German navy lieutenant named Eberhard von Mantey was assigned the task of preparing an invasion of the United States after German and American interests had collided in the Pacific.

"Wilhelm II wanted colonies and military bases around the world," author Henning Sietz wrote in Die Zeit. "The United States was increasingly getting in the Kaiser's way."

Von Mantey's aim was to find a way to force the United States to sign a treaty giving Germany free reign in the Pacific and Atlantic. He rejected ideas of a naval blockade or a naval battle and made plans for an invasion of the northeast instead.

"This is the core of America and this is where the United States could be most effectively hit and most easily forced to sign a peace treaty," von Mantey wrote. He said the morale and discipline of American soldiers was low.

The plans were reworked and revised over the next decade. Chief of staff Alfred von Schlieffen, who planned Germany's invasion of France in World War One, was skeptical about the idea of attacking the United States, 3,000 sea miles away.

But his loyalty to the Kaiser prevented him from rejecting the war planning outright, Sietz said. At one point the German chief of staff had a plan to bombard New York City.

"The greatest panic would break out in New York over fears of a bombardment," von Mantey wrote.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Germany; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: boston; germany; history; newyork; war
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-46 next last
This would have changed history. They wouldn't have won, and would have probably been weakened and unable to start WWI. And some Austrian named Adolf would have been an unknown painter...
1 posted on 05/08/2002 6:19:40 AM PDT by Koblenz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Koblenz
Well, they were only a few generations away from the first German invasion of NYC--during the Revolutionary War. Thousands of Hessians accompanied Howe and Cornwallis when they invaded Brooklyn from Staten Island and landed at Gravesend. The Battle of Brooklyn ensued (August, 1776) and they kicked Patriot butt.

Then, the Hessians invaded Manhattan from across the east River and landed at Kip's Bay (present day 34th Street and First Ave. The Brits and their Hessian allies held New York City for the entire war after that and did not leave until 1783. So you see, this is not as unusual as it seems.

2 posted on 05/08/2002 6:30:28 AM PDT by Pharmboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: Koblenz
"Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!"
4 posted on 05/08/2002 6:39:01 AM PDT by mhking
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Millburn Drysdale
Indeed, every well-run military establishment is always gaming scenarios against probable, possible and even unlikely enemies. It was the Russians failure to continue to do this after 1910 that resulted in the Tsar facing a decision in 1914 to either (1) mobilize against both Germany and Austria or (2) do nothing. Had Russian plans (which existed up to 1910) to mobilize against Austria, but not Germany, been up to date, that is the path the Tsar would have followed. Had that happened, the consensus of informed opinion is that a general European war would likely then have been avoided, because the Germans would not have had to put their Schlieffen Plan into effect.
5 posted on 05/08/2002 6:40:39 AM PDT by CatoRenasci
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Koblenz
Yeah, but what I want to know is--does the United Stateshave a plan for invading New York?
6 posted on 05/08/2002 6:40:51 AM PDT by LaBelleDameSansMerci
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Koblenz
Sad to say but an invading German army might have suceeded in capturing many eastern seaboard cities in 1900. Only a few years earlier there was serious concern that the Spanish fleet in Cuba might have shelled US cities on the east and Gulf coasts. US military strength at the time was quite low and the Navy had not yet started a serious build up in capital ships.

However, a German invasion may well have met with serious guerilla warfare as its army attempted to move inland.

7 posted on 05/08/2002 6:43:28 AM PDT by The Great RJ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Koblenz
I think it's kinda funny that Washington DC doesn't figure into these old attack plans at all. I would think Fairfax VA, SFO or LA would be equally important targets as Boston, too, now, being hubs of technology expertise. And what about all those programmers in India? :-))
8 posted on 05/08/2002 6:43:33 AM PDT by LurkedLongEnough
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mhking
Actually the comment about New York fearing bombardment around 1897 is quite perceptive and correct. There was a panic on the East Coast of the US when the Spanish American War broke out, over fear that the supposedly fast Spanish squadron then on its way from Spain whose position and destination were unkown, would attack the main harbours in New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Newport News, Savannah and Charelston.
9 posted on 05/08/2002 6:44:00 AM PDT by CatoRenasci
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Koblenz
Looks like present-day terrorists resurrected von Mantey's plan....
10 posted on 05/08/2002 6:44:50 AM PDT by stainlessbanner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mhking
Germans? Forget it, he's on a roll.

LOL
11 posted on 05/08/2002 6:44:53 AM PDT by zx2dragon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: LurkedLongEnough
They knew that DC was helping their plans, not hurting :)
12 posted on 05/08/2002 6:44:57 AM PDT by ko_kyi
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: LaBelleDameSansMerci
Yeah, but what I want to know is--does the United States have a plan for invading New York?

LOL! Hillary has already set up the enemy camp!

13 posted on 05/08/2002 6:45:44 AM PDT by LurkedLongEnough
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Pharmboy
You forgot to mention Saratoga, where the American farmers kicked Hessian and British butt. Although the Hessians fought tenaciously and nobly, they were no match for the unorthodox, persistent Americans who refused to be stopped.
14 posted on 05/08/2002 6:51:47 AM PDT by txzman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: txzman
I just stayed with NYC.

Even before Saratoga, General Washington along with tired, ill-fed, ill-clothed Patriots surprised the Hessians at Trenton and took their colors. Boy--they were embarrassed by that one...

15 posted on 05/08/2002 6:55:21 AM PDT by Pharmboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Koblenz
"Beginning in 1897, a German navy lieutenant named Eberhard von Mantey was assigned the task of preparing an invasion of the United States..."

So they assigned a LT to prepare the invasion plans of the United States? Either this is not correct, or we see why Wilhelm's 'empire' didn't get very far.

16 posted on 05/08/2002 6:59:05 AM PDT by fogarty
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Koblenz
"One plan foresaw a force of 100,000 soldiers transported across the Atlantic on 60 ships."

THAT would NEVER work. The cruise terminals on the west side of Manhattan couldn't hold that many ships at once, and the nightmare of processing 100,000 Germans thru Customs and Immigration would take for-EVER. Just the Duty-Free hassles would make it a nightmare. Can you see the Customs Declaration Forms for all those weapons and ammo?

And then imagine all 100,000 Germans trying to exit the terminals. Why, back in 1900, the taxi service, difficult as it is to imagine, was actually WORSE than it is today.

Nope, the German Army would have bogged down just trying to get thru customs at the cruise terminals.

No wonder they abandoned the plan.

Michael

17 posted on 05/08/2002 7:06:11 AM PDT by Wright is right!
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Koblenz
The Royal Navy would have had something to say about it.

Fun for speculation though.

18 posted on 05/08/2002 7:17:50 AM PDT by Snake65
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Koblenz
Geez, Die Zeit thinks they're "breaking" this story? The major media is pretty laughable.

Mantey's plan for an American attack has been well known for YEARS. I've read "The Weltpolitik of Wilhelm II and the United States" in the Library of Congress about 4-5 years ago, which has all the details of Mantey's plan.

I'm a wargamer, have played around with setting this up as a naval scenario. The naval forces are actually quite well balanced in terms of pre-dreadnoughts in the 1900-1905 period. (Americans a pretty short on cruisers and scouting forces, because Congress only budgeted for the big ships.) But the Americans have the advantage of defending. Interesting contrast in ships as the Germans went with smaller, quick-firing guns on their pre-dreadnoughts while the Americans had larger guns with a slow rate of fire.

If you read the various quotes and statements, there actually was quite a bit of ill-feeling on both sides towards each other....a German fleet had hung around the Phillipines hoping to pick up scraps from the Spanish during the Spanish-American war, and had been directly threatened by Dewey, and the Germans had wanted Samoa too.

I have little doubt the land invasion would have failed miserably eventually, as they were overwhelmed by hordes of enthusiastic and fired-up, if ill-trained, volunteers and draftees.

As others have noted, having a "plan" for something isn't that big a deal, though to non-military media types it seems like it is. The current US military, I'm sure, has a "plan" for invading every single country in the world. And the fact that this plan was done by a lowly Lt. should tell you something. It was a BIT more serious than an idle War College excersise, but FAR less serious than a plan developed by Admirals and Generals.

19 posted on 05/08/2002 7:18:09 AM PDT by John H K
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Snake65
The Royal Navy would have had something to say about it.

Why? At the time the most recent war scares the British had had was with the US over Venezuela, and with the French and Russians. The German-British rivalry really hadn't gotten going yet, and the British-American friendship hadn't either. At the time, the only real close ally the British had was Japan, and the British didn't actively support them in the Russo-Japanese War in 1905 (though they came close after the Russians idiotically shot up a bunch of British fishing trawlers thinking they were Japanese torpedo boats).

The British likely would have done absolutely nothing.

20 posted on 05/08/2002 7:21:39 AM PDT by John H K
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-46 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson