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1 posted on 05/13/2002 10:12:59 AM PDT by gubamyster
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To: gubamyster
One of Christianity's holiest shrines was profaned by armed terrorists.

No.
Don't you watch the news broadcasts?
They were Palestinian "militants" seeking refuge
from Israeli forced who wanted to assasinate them.
The UN and the EU have so declared.
They must be right, don't you think?

2 posted on 05/13/2002 10:20:54 AM PDT by ppaul
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To: gubamyster
Christ's church is not a building. Christ's church is written on our hearts...and no one can destroy that.

Matthew 5:38-47

An Eye for an Eye

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Love for Enemies

"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
3 posted on 05/13/2002 10:24:04 AM PDT by sonserae
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To: gubamyster
Christianity turns the other cheek

I wonder if the editor who penned this title even knows who it was that counseled this course of action?

5 posted on 05/13/2002 10:27:12 AM PDT by SlickWillard
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To: gubamyster
Sounds like the Vatican is trying to rally another Crusade.
6 posted on 05/13/2002 10:29:06 AM PDT by biblewonk
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To: gubamyster
Sounds like they're mad we're being "Christian" about it.
7 posted on 05/13/2002 10:29:20 AM PDT by Caipirabob
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To: gubamyster
The Church of the Nativity was desecrated. The Christian response was a disgrace.
And when the Hagia Sophia was desecrated?
9 posted on 05/13/2002 10:31:46 AM PDT by Asclepius
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To: gubamyster
I know it's just a building of building of stone & wood, but what made me the maddest was the disrespect shown by the terrorists inside and those Arabs who supported them from the outside.

Can you imagine the outcry if anyone occupied the dome of the rock or the mosque at mecca?

13 posted on 05/13/2002 10:43:30 AM PDT by Smittie
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To: gubamyster
I was very pleased that the vast majority of Christians kept their cool while those with agendas attempted to get them riled up over the situation.
14 posted on 05/13/2002 10:46:18 AM PDT by wheezer
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To: gubamyster
First, places are not sacred to Christianity (at least not the places that God has not declared as holy). A church is not the buliding, it is the people who go there to worship and learn about God and Jesus. Yes, it is damaged, but the building is just brick and stone and wood. All of which can be easily cleande or replaced.

Second, I hold the PLO in such low esteem that my opinion of them COULDN'T be worse. They are animals with no respect for anything. Even their supposed association with a false religion is a lie. They care no more about Islam than what sympathy and money they can get from other Islam countries.

15 posted on 05/13/2002 10:46:51 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants
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To: gubamyster
It needs to be said. The occupation of the Church of the Nativity by armed Palestinian terrorists was a gravely anti-Christian act. Much has been made of how the basilica was filthy but not seriously damaged. To speak only of what happens to a church physically is to miss the point. One of Christianity's holiest shrines was profaned by armed terrorists. It is blasphemy to use the house of God as a military refuge. For more than a month, the faithful were denied access to the basilica to pray while the gunmen used its status as a house of prayer as a tactical advantage.

First of all, it's a building. Historical maybe but it should be treated with reverence and respect but Our Lord may have been born there, but he isn't there anymore and we are told when he returns he will make all things new. It broke my heart to see what they did. Not so much what was done but their under disregard for the place.

Christians can pray any place. They don't need to go to a shrine to pray. Thhe Muslims hate Christians as much as they hate the jews so this was no surprise to me when it was left like a pig pen. They didn't desacrate the place. They desacrated themselves by their hate that their relgion teaches and stresses. They will answer for it one day and I believe that day is coming soon.

18 posted on 05/13/2002 10:50:36 AM PDT by Texas Mom
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To: gubamyster
did Jesus turn the other cheek when he overturned the money changer tables in the temple? turn the other cheek is merely a convenient way to avoid standing up for good, confronting evil.
19 posted on 05/13/2002 10:52:03 AM PDT by galt-jw
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To: gubamyster
Christianity is the true religion- not a religion of symbols and ceremony. It is truly a religion of peace.
21 posted on 05/13/2002 10:54:53 AM PDT by ThinkingMan
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To: gubamyster
Amen!

Where is the outrage!

The 18 month reign of terror was brought by the PLO under the pretext of Sharon visiting the Temple Mount. He did not set foot in the Al Asqa Mosque!

He had prior permission from Jibril Rajoub, the head of the Palestinian Authority's Preventive Security services. He authorized in advance the Sharon’s visit to the Temple Mount.

Rajoub even stated there would be no reaction.

Sharon did not seize the Al Asqa Mosque.

He did not bring machine guns into the Al Asqa Mosque.

He did not plant bombs in the Al Asqa Mosque.

He did not urinate on the floor of the the Al Asqa Mosque.

Will Israel now be in her first month of an 18 month reign of nonstop terror? Major point:

One of the paramount issues in considering a future nation which the Arabs will call Palestine is the guarantee of Holy sites in the areas they would control. Given that we just witnessed the "Al Asqa Seize & Pee Brigade” desecrate one of the most Holy Christian sites, we can never allow a Palestinian state to have any control over Jerusalem or any of the Holy Sites which are not Muslim. PERIOD.

31 posted on 05/13/2002 11:26:35 AM PDT by Kay Soze
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To: gubamyster
I think it's worth mentioning that the Church of the Nativity is not a Catholic church as seems to be assumed here. It's part of an Armenian Orthodox monastery, and is jointly administered by the Armenian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, and Roman Catholic churches. But the Orthodox monks are the ones responsible for its maintenance and upkeep. It's also worht mentioning that those same monks kept their liturgical duties throughout the siege of the church, holding their services as their vows required.
45 posted on 05/13/2002 12:19:15 PM PDT by Doug Loss
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To: gubamyster
>>Raymond J. de Souza is Rome correspondent for the National Catholic Register. He is to be ordained a Catholic priest in July

Maybe not, after this piece. He just offended peace-loving Muslims.

46 posted on 05/13/2002 12:25:25 PM PDT by pabianice
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To: gubamyster
I had wondered about this myself. I know that a true church is not bricks and mortar, but I couldn't stand by and allow a church to be desecrated any more than I would another property that is being used. Still, it was good to see clips of people worshipping there yesterday.
57 posted on 05/13/2002 2:53:17 PM PDT by mafree
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To: gubamyster
A few thoughts:

First of all, offering the other cheek is all well and good when it pertains to ourselves, as individuals. I would argue, however, that there is a problem when we as Christians turn the other cheek when it is other people who are being harmed or when it is the sacred things of God that are under attack. The occupation of the Church of the Nativity was clearly a case of the latter. Particular places and churches are not holy in themselves, but I would argue that God does sanctify such places by His grace and that we should treat them as belonging to God.

I have my own little theory as to why there is not more outrage. It goes back to the liberalism that has invaded the Catholic Church. Liberalism has very effectively changed the de facto practices of Church life. Art is different, music is different, architecture is different... even the liturgy is different from the way it has been for many years now. It has all been secularized in a sense.

The outward expressions of faith play a very strong role on the way the faith captures our hearts. When we find ourselves expressing our faith in the forms in which we worship, that faith becomes real. It is practical. It captures our hearts to a great degree.

But, when worship and religious practice is secularized, what do we do then? What do we do when it does not reflect our faith? In such a case, we become disconnected from what we believe. I believe this is the case in the modern Catholic Church.

Do not misunderstand me- I am not advocating for Catholics to become Traditionalist schismatics. However, I do think that we must have a movement towards orthodox expression to compliment and to teach our orthodox faith, lest our hearts move even further from our souls.

(Note: I am not saying that this problem applies to all Christians. As a Catholic, I simply speak from the condition I know within my own Church.)

58 posted on 05/13/2002 3:01:53 PM PDT by MWS
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To: gubamyster
Puhlese! Islam is the religion of peace!

Just because the Turks used the Parthenon for a gunpowder storehouse and it blew up and devastated that marvelous antiquity doesn't mean that Islam has no respect for other religions.

Its not like they go around doing that...oops except maybe the Buddahs in Afghanistan.

Surely there is some evidence of their respect for other belief systems. How about India? Oh well, wrong again.

59 posted on 05/13/2002 3:02:40 PM PDT by Young Werther
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To: gubamyster
Maybe Christians are more in tune with God's will. I don't think God would appreciate pressure being placed on Israel to withdraw because of Christian outrage over stone and timber which shall fall to the ground at His appearing.

Yes it was an outrage for these terrorist to over run and invade the Church of the Nativity and use it for a urinal. But here in the last days, dark is called light, good is called evil, and it would have been Israel that would take the heat from evil in high places for a situation they did not create if Christians had thrown the kind of fit that Muslims would have had it been a Mosque that was invaded.

We love God's people more than the Church of the Nativity, even though it is well loved also, it is repairable.

60 posted on 05/13/2002 3:03:33 PM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: gubamyster
Yes, they attempted to desecrate the church, but they didn't succeed. They occupied it, they left their filth there to show their disrespect, but it was cleaned and washed and returned to God. Their hearts, however, can only be cleaned and washed by God. It is THEY who must face God with an explaination of why they blasphemed. Even by their own religion, they blasphemed since Mohammad called Christ holy and a prophet.

OUR faith can not be destroyed by the filth these people spread, OUR church can not be desecrated by these pathetic creatures. They are to be pitied for they will face God with unclean hearts.

74 posted on 05/13/2002 7:25:15 PM PDT by McGavin999
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