Another al-Qaeda Anthrax Connection

Washington Times ^

[okie01]

"One continues to wonder why, in the face of all this circumstantial evidence, the FBI still appears to be focussed on the lone domestic terrorist theory."

It is quite possible that the FBI has two focusses. One for public consumption, quite another for actual investigative purposes. Or it may be that there is only the PR focus, because they know Iraq (or whoever) was the culprit and the investigation is moot.

Actually, the FBI has been rather silent on the subject lately. Or, at least, non-committal. Evidently, they are quite content to let Barbara Rosenberg lead the mainstream media astray with her "domestic terrorist" theory. That being where the mainstream media want to go anyway, it doesn't take much misdirection to have them baying on the false scent.

[Ordinary_American]

When you say "coating" I assume you are referring to the additive that reduces electrostatic interaction preventing clumping of the spores. This has traditionally been betonite or silicon-based substances. It's rather common stuff (e.g. used in the fertilizer industry) and may not point definitively in any particular direction.

[Mitchell]

Still, the guy I am citing formerly was Deputy of the USSR biological warfare operation. He knows what he is talking about.

Indeed you're right. Alibek is someone to listen to.

For purposes of discussion we must presume that neither you nor I have tried this!

I presume not!

An experiment would seem to be in order.

If the mail processing equipment did succeed in processing the spores to an unheard-of fineness, it was fortuitous. I hope our side tests this idea soon; you can be sure that other countries will be.

As you say, this is the type of thing that can be resolved only by experiment, not by theorizing or speculating.

Do you know if there is anything on-line that describes exactly what these mail processing machines do?

[Mitchell]

These were standard USPS envelopes purchased at the counterline.

A small point here: Can't these also be purchased for delivery by mail? (I know various other USPS supplies can be ordered for delivery by mail.)

[Mitchell]

This relates to an earlier post of yours where you said that it would be significant if one could find evidence of testing dispersal equipment.

Yes, so far we know that the terrorists investigated the possible use of crop-dusters, but no evidence that they went beyond the initial investigatory steps. Did they reject the idea? Have they just not followed up yet?

Shortly after 9/11, there were several reports of suspicious incidents with crop-dusters near the Mississippi River. It's conceivable that one or more of these were tests. (It's also true that these could all easily have been innocuous events. We just don't know.)

[Mitchell]

Recognize also that cropdusting equipment presumes the active ingredients will be dissolved in some liquid medium (e.g., water) in order to properly disperse the contents.

I wonder what happens if you put a very fine powder in this equipment, without dissolving it in a liquid medium. Will it spray at all? Will it clog?

[Mitchell]

Whether it is an effective terrorist method or whether or not it was ultimately used is another matter.

As far as we know, it hasn't been used. It might have been tested, and people should be on the alert for possible tests.

[muawiyah]

Under the "stamps by mail" program you can, of course, buy these very same envelopes by mail. Or, you can buy them at a post office. Frequently, when you were in Boy Scouting, your mother would buy them and send them with you (hoping to get a letter from you). They pass them out on the first day of Army Basic Training, and it is conceivable that AlQeada provided it's trainees destined for American billets with a good supply of these very same envelopes.

Again, they were made by the winning bidder!

[muawiyah]

There are a myriad of devices that make up an automated letter mail processing line. Try starting at Electrocom. They built a lot of stuff. A google.com search for Postal Automation Equipment Contract might do the job.

[Mitchell]

Again, they were made by the winning bidder!

Yes, one report said that these envelopes were more porous than regular envelopes (whatever "regular" means).

[Mitchell]

Thanks for the information.

[okie01]

"I wonder what happens if you put a very fine powder in this equipment, without dissolving it in a liquid medium."

Probably nothing. There are high-pressure pumps and check valves involved in spraying operations.

Many of the herbicides and pesticides used in agricultural applications come in the form of "flowable powders". Mixing them with water usually also involves the addition of surfactants/dispersants, both to aid in solubilizing the active ingredient and to keep the solution from beading on the leaf.

The nozzles also have to be replaced frequently, since they are milled to such fine tolerances (so as to control coverage) that they tend to wear out rather quickly. Especially, if the mixtures employed are somewhat corrosive or even slightly abrasive.

I suppose the enemy could develop their own rig. Something which relied simply on a venturi effect to disperse a fine powder into the air. Metering or regulating it could be difficult, but I doubt achieving a perfectly even dispersion would be high on their list of priorities.

The point is this:

1. If the material is in powder form, and would stay that way, a modification to existing equipment would be necessary.

2. If the material is going to be distributed in liquid form, the operation would require considerable pre-testing to establish proper specifications. Then, the mixing and calibration stages would require some precision. They couldn't just steal a plane, load it up and start spraying death over the landscape. Pump pressure, nozzle size and type, flying speed and altitude, etc. would all have to enter into the calculation.

I know that, if I were in charge of such an operation, I'd want to already own a crop-dusting service and be able to modify the equipment to my particular specifications. I would not want to attempt such an operation "off the cuff", with stolen equipment, jury-rigged modifications and a rushed timetable.

Thus, were I the FBI, I would be investigating the ownership/operators of all registered cropdusting operations in the country. And I wouldn't be much concerned with the opportunistic "snatch & spray" operation.

[Mitchell]

Thanks for the information. It makes a lot of sense.

Thus, were I the FBI, I would be investigating the ownership/operators of all registered cropdusting operations in the country.

Are cropdusting operations registered with the Federal government, or just with state and local authorities?

[I'm ALL Right!]

How much cyanide was stolen? Is it in a form that could plausibly be spread by crop dusters? How much cyanide would be needed to be effective in that sort of situation?

Everyone is so busy discussing Anthrax, my immediate thought went to the cyanide. Perhaps it is not possible to spread cyanide in this manner?

[Ordinary_American]

Cyanide is most effective in a closed environment like a building. In fact there was a report out of Italy that a large cache of cyanide was found. Around the same time Italian police discovered and thwarted an effort to gain access to the U.S. Embassy via a tunnel. You raise a very valid point. Anthrax is one of many possible chem, bio or rad threats. Cyanide, for example, is relatively cheap and easy to obtain.

[okie01]

"Are cropdusting operations registered with the Federal government, or just with state and local authorities?"

Both. The USDA should have a list. As would, I imagine, the FAA. Plus, the state agricultural and environmental bodies.

Everything to do with commercial herbicides/pesticides is highly regulated. Even as a farmer handling these materials, you need a federal hazardous materials permit -- which are issued annually.

Even if the feds can't get their list together (a distinct possibility), I'm sure there is an cropdusting industry association of some sort. Plus, I know the ag chemicals distributors keep a file on the hazardous material permits that are issued (they can't sell to you unless you're registered...and they're serious about it).

If there isn't an up-to-date list of every cropdusting service in every FBI field office, the bureau is more incompetent than we could imagine.