JOHN MAGAW SUPPORTS TERRORISM

Sierra Times ^ | Captain Dennis Jackson

[Sir Gawain]

	JOHN MAGAW SUPPORTS TERRORISM (Only law enforcement officers should carry firearms) By Captain Dennis Jackson Published 05. 21. 02 at 14:44 Sierra Time

Mesa, AZ May 21, 2002 In a common display of political cowardice, the undersecretary for transportation security, John Magaw told a congressional committee that pilots would not be allowed to carry firearms as a last line of defense against hijackers. Hopefully, Congress will exhibit more fortitude in passing HR 4635. This bill will make it a federal law that airline pilots who are qualified, investigated and trained will be allowed to carry a firearm on board commercial aircraft for the defense of the passengers, crew and those on the ground, in the event of a hijacking, as outlined by the following: Sec. 44921. Federal flight deck officer program `(a) ESTABLISHMENT- Not later than 90 days after the date of enactment of this Act, the Under Secretary of Transportation for Security shall establish a program to deputize qualified volunteer pilots of passenger aircraft as Federal law enforcement officers to defend the flight decks of aircraft of air carriers engaged in air transportation or intrastate air transportation against acts of criminal violence or air piracy. Such officers shall be known as `Federal flight deck officers'. The program shall be administered in connection with the Federal air marshal program. `(b) QUALIFIED PILOT- Under the program, a qualified pilot is a pilot of an aircraft engaged in air transportation or intrastate air transportation who-- `(1) is employed by an air carrier; `(2) has demonstrated to the satisfaction of the Under Secretary fitness to be a Federal flight deck officer under the program; and `(3) has been the subject of an employment investigation (including a criminal history record check) under section 44936(a)(1). Magaw claims that only law enforcement should carry firearms on aircraft. Magaw has suggested a plan to provide all law enforcement officers with a special ID card that will allow them access to the aircraft with a firearm. Since this plan does not include pilots, I wonder if Magaw has a plan to create ‘super’ law enforcement officers to fly aircraft if the pilots become incapacitated during flight, or during a hijacking attempt? There is no guarantee, as Magaw claims, that a law enforcement officer will be on board a hijacked commercial airliner, or that it will prevent a future hijacking. In fact, there was a federal law enforcement officer with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service on United Airlines flight 93 that crashed in Shanksville, PA on September 11, 2001. Why did this officer not prevent the hijacking? Did the terrorists defeat him early on during the hijacking? The government is not talking! It is certain that if the pilots were armed with lethal self-defense tools these terrorists would be “picked off” by the pilots as they came through the narrow flight deck door. Instead, Magaw is implementing a toll free 800 number for passengers to call the authorities in the event of a hijacking. There were several passengers and crewmembers that made cell phone calls on September 11, and not one of those calls prevented the horrific tragedy that followed. The only logical reason for an 800 number for this purpose is to provide the government with an ‘early alert’ for the dispatch of the military fighters that will use missiles to shoot down the aircraft. Can you imagine the embarrassment to the United States if Osama bin Laden dupes us into shooting down one of our own aircraft? The propaganda advantage to OBL and al Qaeda would be better than another WTC style attack! We would be the laughing stock of the world. Magaw said the pilots could use in-flight maneuvers to keep the hijackers off guard and suggested installing cameras in the cabin so pilots can see the results of any actions they take. Magaw also stated that pilots should “concentrate on flying the aircraft”. If this is true, how is a video screen in the flight deck going to keep the pilots concentration on flying the aircraft? In addition, the FAA has already advised pilots not to use unusual maneuvers in flight. Such action could cause structural damage to the aircraft and also injure crewmembers in the cabin. Magaw claims that he would possibly favor the use of less-than-lethal weapons for the defense of the flight deck such as stun guns or Tasers. While John Magaw was director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, I am certain he would not send his agents into a potentially hazardous situation armed only with a “stun gun”. The use of a stun gun in the flight deck of a fly-by-wire aircraft could have devastating results to the entire electrical system and may cause the loss of the aircraft. Pilots and passengers deserve the same logical consideration when it comes to the potential hazard of a deadly hijacking. This only illustrates the ignorance of the TSA director and shows that he has not done his homework before making such a broad statement that he will not allow armed pilots. I can guarantee that John Magaw did not meet with proponents of the armed pilot program or any industry leaders familiar with the complexities of the issue before making his ridiculous statement to Congress. John Magaw is bowing to the wishes of the terrorist organizations that wish a safe work environment for their evil activities and the airlines that are only concerned about their liability and bottom line. With the daily warnings of more terror attacks every concerned citizen should contact their Congressman and encourage them to support the Arming Pilots Against Terrorism Act (HR 4635) Captain Jackson is a pilot for a major US air carrier and a technical advisor to Armed Females of America. He has also been an active proponent of arming pilots and is a certified firearm instructor.

[Sir Gawain]

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[Reagan Man]

John Magaw is bowing to the wishes of the terrorist organizations...

I don't believe Magaw is siding with the terrorists, but he sure does have his head up his butt on this issue.

[OWK]

I don't believe Magaw is siding with the terrorists...

He is certainly siding with the anti-Constitutional terrorists.

[Washington_minuteman]

"JOHN MAGAW SUPPORTS TERRORISM"

It's easy to see how the author of this piece could draw this conclusion. After all, he's talking about the former head of F-Troop, the US government's official terrorist organization.

[paddles]

`(a) ESTABLISHMENT- Not later than 90 days after the date of enactment of this Act, the Under Secretary of Transportation for Security shall establish a program to deputize qualified volunteer pilots of passenger aircraft as Federal law enforcement officers

"There is no guarantee, as Magaw claims, that a law enforcement officer will be on board a hijacked commercial airliner, or that it will prevent a future hijacking."

Message to Captain "Scoop" Jackson: Can't have it both ways, pal. By your own admission your program is only voluntary, thus there's no way YOU can guarantee that one of the flight crew will have a weapon.

[etcetera]

I've been following this "arm the pilots" subject for months now, and have yet to hear any good arguments as to why commercial airline pilots should not carry firearms.

All the arguments by gov't bureaucrats like Norm Mineta and John Magaw don't cut it. Anyone out there disagree?

[nunya bidness]

Lies, Inc.: Meet the New Magaw...

[Washington_minuteman]

Thanks for the link. I guess that because this guy's been promoted for his meritorious service by Bush, he's okay now.

I wonder of good old George Jr., looked into Magaw's eyes and saw a good man there, just like he did with Putin?

[Ohioan]

I wonder of good old George Jr., looked into Magaw's eyes and saw a good man there, just like he did with Putin?

I don't know about that. But I suggested in one of the other threads on this that George Washington wouldn't have trusted Magaw or any of the other dysrons in the Department of Transportation to even tether his horse. Those people have no concept as to how American Society is supposed to work. They may not support Terrorism, but they surely are not competent to have a say in how to deal with it.

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

[paddles]

I think the devil is in the details rather than it's concept. Just a couple of them:

1. The Airlines want any legislation authorizing pilots to carry firearms to absolve them of any liability. BTW, don't expect the unions to run to the front of the line to accept that risk either.

Note to interested airline pilots: You'll be on your own if you make a mistake.

2. Despite the fact that the pilots claim that 70% of them are "proficient" with handguns, this "proficiency" differs greatly. Generally speaking, Marines are very proficient with the Air Force and Navy pilots running a distant second. For the most part, a military pilot's level of proficiency is far below that of a law enforcement officer. Further, a law enforcement officer is trained to employ firearms in a completely different manner than a member of the armed forces. Thus, some formal, standardized syllabus will be required. At a minimum, attendance at the Federal Firearms Training Facility in Glynco, GA,--or something comparable--will be required. Who will pay for this?

I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea of airline pilots carrying firearms, and I'll stack my credentials as a supporter of our Second Amendment rights up against anybody's. But there are some real concerns with this proposal and labelling those who voice them as "anti-gun" or "pro-terrorist" is just ain't right.

[Washington_minuteman]

I don't think anyone in their right mind would support terrorism. My sacrasm is sometimes too subdued :-)

It just amazes me however, that Republicans did not have a screaming fit about those appointments, considering the history of those appointed. It's one of the growing plehoria of reasons I trust the government less now, than I did when the Democrats were in the White House.

---

"[I]t is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

--Reichsmarschall Hermann Goering

[Aurelius]

Isn't Magaw a former head of the Bureau of Arson Terrorism and Fascism?

[etcetera]

Your points are well taken. Here's my rebuttal:

1. There is legislation being proposed in the House that would exempt airlines from liability. There needs to be something that would extend that to the pilots themselves.

2. Handgun training for all qualifying pilots has been offered free of charge by Front Site, a major firearm training concern. This training should be mandatory for all pilots who want to carry.

[sit-rep]

Justa 'nother elitist scumbag. He has guns around him to ensure his safety...that's all that matters.

SR

[Uncle Bill]

"Isn't Magaw a former head of the Bureau of Arson Terrorism and Fascism?"

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John Magaw - Lies, Inc.: Meet the New Magaw

December 5, 1996 - BATF Director John W. Magaw has issued an open letter demanding that any person who has ever committed a "domestic" misdemeanor "immediately lawfully dispose of their firearms and ammunition." Failure to comply can subject the firearms possessor to "criminal penalties [and] seizure and forfeiture."

"In the past decade, ATF agents have served over 10,000 search warrants. Not one of them has led to any finding of constitutional violations by an employee acting outside the scope or his or her authority."
John Magaw - Source

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Norman Mineta

"I don't feel we should have lethal weapons in the cockpit,"
Norman Mineta - Source

---

Tom Ridge - Says Terrorism Is Permanent

Ridge comment on pilots out of step

"I don't think we want to equip our pilots with firearms, That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Where would it end?"
Tom Ridge - Source

---

Bill Clinton - Rapist

"That’s why I’m for instant background checks at gun shows. I’m for trigger locks."
George W. Bush - Source: St. Louis debate Oct 17, 2000.

"W. Wimps Out on Guns"
The Bush package includes several pet causes of the gun-control lobby, including $75 million for gun locks; $15.3 million for 113 new federal attorneys to serve as full-time gun prosecutors; and $19.1 million to expand a program by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms aimed at preventing youths from obtaining guns. Although Bush stressed that he simply wants to "enforce existing laws," the fine print of Project Safe echoes the gun-grabbing Left's call to ban the importation of high-capacity ammunition clips."

LAURA BUSH:
"During her San Diego speech, for instance, she said nothing about the school shooting that occurred 20 miles away in El Cajon the day before, although in a television interview she condemned it, adding that she thinks more gun control laws are needed.

"I think that's very important," she said when asked by CNN whether stronger gun laws are needed."
Source

Project Safe Neighborhoods, A Closer Look

NEA Resource Text Guide In Regards To The Extreme Right -Where Do Your Kids Go To School?
"The radical right says it is pro-life but it bitterly opposes gun control legislation"

Mandatory Gun Show Background Check Act

Republican help - What are friends for?

Gun Owners Group Takes Aim at Lott (Treason On 2ndAmd, Gungrab Sununu Vs Patriot GunChampion Smith)

RON PAUL: "PILOTS vs. BUREAUCRATS"

Pilots Beg Bush to Allow Guns

Homeland Security Director: "I don't think we want to equip our pilots with firearms," Ridge said. "That doesn't make a lot of sense to me." Asked why, Ridge replied, "Where would it end?"

Defenseless pilots

The Supreme Court Will Never Safeguard Your Gun Rights

EMERSON & THE SECOND AMENDMENT

DOJ briefs to the Supreme Court that we've been reading about (Emerson, etc)

Update on Emerson (Appeals)

Justice Department's legal opinion on Second Amendment is "politically schizophrenic,"

A Problem With Guns?

"Had I known that the enemy was going to use airplanes to kill on that fateful morning, I would have done everything in my power to protect the American people,"
George W. Bush - Source

[safisoft]

Message to Captain "Scoop" Jackson: Can't have it both ways, pal. By your own admission your program is only voluntary, thus there's no way YOU can guarantee that one of the flight crew will have a weapon.,

Message to "puddles paddles": Since over 80% of US airline pilots favor this, it stands to reason we will have a very good chance of 100% of the flights with at least one deputized pilot. Just so you "let the gubmint do it" people know - statistically, the number of flights that carry so-called Sky Marshalls on them today is 0%.

[Thumper1960]

Magaw, et al, seem not to understand: You're either for us, or you're for the terrorists.

The first of order for security is that all persons capable and Constitutionally able, should be armed at all times possible.

Listening, George?

You're either with the people, or you're against the people. Simple.

[Thumper1960]

The only "proficiency" needed is the ability to hit, and kill, what you aim at. As for LEO's being better trained in firearms than military.......the comment is laughable and absurd. Too many LEO's couldn't find their asses with both hands. Too many LEO's haven't the experience of shooting a weapon in the heat of battle or even drawing their weapons, outside of range play, in an enforcement situation.

American LEO's are simply incapable of being a first line of defense in the event of terrorist attack. They are, by definition, 'police'. Better suited to traffic control, investigation of committed crimes and inspecting seat belt compliance. They are certainly not a "Department of Defense".

[Squantos]

John Magaw, former top dog in Ohio State Troopers, US Secret Service Deputy Director (?) and now this ........

Air Marshal Program is a joke as a troop of mine told me his 6 year old son asked him "why" the three men got to get on the plane before people with kids ? When my troop finally was allowed to board with his family the three men he saw boarding early were all sitting 3 to 12 rows apart from each other in coach looking like deer in the headlights........

A small six year old boy outted these alledgedly super secret air marshals ability to blend in with common everyday passengers.......

Yeah Magaw......your really concerned with the sheeples safety aren't ya !

Stay Safe SG !