Posted on 05/26/2002 4:13:36 AM PDT by JamesParmelee
Sales tax debate heats up By LAUREN DUNN Journal staff writer
A new coalition formed to oppose a sales tax hike dropped thousands of fliers across Northern Virginia this week, indicating the battle over November's referendum is starting to heat up.
The Northern Virginia Coalition Against the Sales Tax began distributing 10,000 fliers to open its campaign to influence voters in the upcoming referendum, which will ask if local voters would support a half-cent tax hike to fund transportation projects.
``We have a huge coalition of people that agree on very little except this one issue," said James Parmelee, president of the coalition, which includes the Prince William, Arlington and Fairfax taxpayer alliances, Virginia Young Republicans and the Libertarian parties of Arlington and Prince William.
Coalition members started going door-to-door Wednesday distributing the fliers, which tell voters that the referendum is a ``sham," because the proposed transportation projects will never be complete.
``In 1986, the state increased the sales tax by over 12 percent to fund `transportation,'" the flier states. ``But gridlock has only gotten worse. We paid more in taxes and got nothing in return."
The first wave of fliers were distributed in Prince William and Arlington counties, western Fairfax County and Springfield, he said. A second round of literature will soon be distributed around the rest of Northern Virginia.
Group members plan to spend between $25,000 and $30,000 throughout the summer on their campaign and about $100,000 total, Parmelee said.
The anti-tax coalition might have thrown the first punch, but organizations that support the tax increase have started creating their own plans of attack.
The REGION Coalition put together a campaign team that is raising money and planning strategies to gain referendum supporters, said Chairman David Guernsey.
``The pieces are being put together," Guernsey said Thursday. ``We're still in the planning stages. The plan itself isn't even known to us yet."
The group is taking its time to make sure its campaign is smart, he said.
``Everybody is chomping at the bit to get all this under way," he said. ``Prudence dictates that you need to make sure you get all your t's crossed and i's dotted to do something this complex. They have their own timetable and we have ours."
But other tax increase opposition groups are continuing to gear up for the fight.
The Prince William Taxpayer Alliance, which formed last year, will concentrate much of its efforts on its Web site, www.pwtaxpayers.com, said Ella Shannon, the group's chairwoman.
``We're going to be keeping the Web site updated," Shannon said. ``We're finding that more and more people are going to the Web site and we're hoping to make better use of it."
Del. Jack Rollison, R-52nd, said there will be a significant effort across the region to gain support for a tax hike. He already has been invited to radio shows and civic association meetings to talk about the referendum.
``It's a hot topic and people are already starting to form strong opinions," said Rollison, who led the General Assembly effort over the past two years to approve a transportation-related referendum. ``We're not limiting our campaign. We're trying to get our message out to every single person who is eligible to vote in the November election. This is an opportunity for every citizen in Northern Virginia to make a decision on how they want to live for the next 20 years."
Give politicians more money and they will not only find a way to spend all of it, they will always want more, and more, and more...
We used to have a 3% state sales tax- then they raised it to 4%... not bad, you say?
Well, not by itself, but then the local school board needed "more money... for our childen..."
( starting to get the drift? )
... to build new schools, hire more teachers- so they conned the local voters into passing a "splost"- Special Local Option Sales Tax...
We are currently debating the fourth hike in this, to 8%, and oddly enough- they still don't have quite enough money...
Even more odd? A few years ago, the School Board "lost" 7, or 8, or 9, or 10, or 11 million dollars- they never could quite figure out exactly how much they lost, the guy supervising the money got sick & died convieniently, the Grand Jury got nowhere fast, and people just kind of lost interest in finding out where all those millions of their own money disappeared to...
We get a lot of "transplants"- from Atlanta, and other big cities, who look at the prices of things- including taxes- and think, "Geez! This is cheap compared to ___."
Problem is, it keeps getting more & more expensive, and some- like us- who are poor may have no choice but to move to cheaper climes.
There's a woman around here- Kathy H, who started investigating the "Toll Bridge Issue"- the only way to Saint Simons is over a causeway, with a toll- and she quickly found herself shut up at Commission meetings, and followed everywhere by the Police. She quickly became silent.
But the heart of the problem is the citizens who elect these corrupt clowns, and don't protest being robbed by them.
So in essence we bounced THREE tax and spenders ALL GOP.
The 8 GOP reps who voted for Boss Hogg Naifeh's flat 4.5% income tax plan last Wednesday just may find themselves JOBLESS come Nov. Or the primary in August.
That would be biggest boon to organized crime in history.
They won't need the drug market, because they'll run the entire economy.
The only thing that would stop it is the government electronically tracking every single transaction through the entire supply chain.
Great idea.
Here in California, we have capitulated to this madness. We have 8%+ Sales Tax (depending on additional city sales taxes) we have 1.5% property taxes per year, we have 8% income tax, we have $1.50 per pack cigarette tax (which now also applies to other tobaccos), we have 20 cents per gallon Gasoline tax, alcohol taxes.
We also have cameras on the intersections and highways so they can fine you without having to pay for a cop to pay attention to the traffic, we have very mean parking meter attendants who have quotas to make.
And with all that, we still have a $23 billion budget deficit!
California should be the example for all of you to fight these increases. Remind your constituents about what can happen. The governor of California now wants to increase taxes across the board to make up this shortfall. But we will have to increase taxes 30% to make up the shortfall! It's sheer madness out here. Don't let it happen over there... or else there will be no place for we Californians to flee!
Sounds very much like a recent Minnesota gas-tax increase...
But then the Republicans added a clause...
The extra money could ONLY BE USED FOR ROADS AND BRIDGES ( NO MASS-TRANSIT )
Then the democ-RATS decided to drop the whole idea!
TRANSPORTATION PROJECTS is DEMO-SPEAK for mass-transit!
GOP shoots itself in the foot again.
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High-speed rail and maglev offer the perfect alternative to augment & supplement our highway and air transportation infrastructure. For regional trips between 150 and 350 miles, it is faster than automobile and not that much slower than air. Yet offers the potential to alleviate both congested highways and air corridors!
In light of current economic conditions, construction of this vital transportation infrastructure should be accelerated.
The difference is that when people never see their money, as a result of withholding, they don't think of it as theirs. With a sales tax, they see the money leave their pockets every time they make a purchase and they realize, as abwehr said in reply 2, "1/2 cent here, 1/2 cent there and pretty soon you're talking real money".
A National Retail Sales Tax (NRST) would have the same effect on federal spending. Every time Congress would try to raise taxes, it would inspire mass revolt against the tax and spenders, just as it has in Virginia. That's why a number of people in Congress have proposed a flat income tax. That way, they get to "claim" that they have reformed the tax system, without actually making any significant changes or putting their gravy train at risk.
Imagine Congress actually being forced to cut taxes. It can happen. But, it will require the NRST to make the average man on the street realize that it really is his money.
That would be biggest boon to organized crime in history.
Huh???
What planet have you been on for the last 89 years.
As it stands today, organized crime pays only token income tax, since almost all of their earnings are from illegal sources and not reported. With a National Retail Sales Tax (NRST), every time that crime boss buys one of his expensive toys (jewelry, cars, yachts, planes, etc.) he would pay tax on that expensive purchase, as well as the many smaller day-to-day purchases (furniture, carpet, clothing, etc.). Even a nominal tax of only 10% on a $10 million yacht would be $1,000,000. That's probably much more than most crime bosses have paid in income taxes over the last 10 years. And, that tax on the underground economy flows all the way down to the pushers and pimps on the street, although the closer to the street level criminals you get, the more likely they are to buy stolen goods that won't be taxed. But an NRST would get the criminals at the top and in the middle, who cannot afford to have stolen goods found in their possession.
Add it up. The NRST would impose a tremendous cost on organized crime.
In the entire history of man, we have not been able to stop or even slow down the "oldest profession". Since the US government declared the "War on Drugs", drug usage, drug overdoses and drug related crime are all up significantly. We are able to track less than 1% of all organized crime profits all the way back to the ultimate beneficiaries and when we do, the money is gone and one lone criminal does a few years in Club Fed. Confiscations of assets is even worse and in fact, confiscations are as likely to be used on you and I as on a criminal figure. All of this adds up to a net loss to the taxpayers. A NRST would mean that a large part of the money going to fight organized crime would come from those we are fighting. That's what you call fitting justice.
The one where organized crime smuggles cigarettes and alcohol into this country and has for AT LEAST the last 89 years. Perhaps you would like to explain the initial justification for the "revinooers" of the ATF? At 8% you won't see much sales tax cheating; at 25% you will.
It's just like gun control. Fail until you get the laws you want.
...organized crime smuggles cigarettes and alcohol into this country and has for AT LEAST the last 89 years.
Yes. And none of that underground income is taxed today.
A National Retail Sales Tax (NRST) would tax the consumer purchases of those who receive that income. Even if the criminals at the bottom of the mob totem pole acquire a large part of their personal goods from illegal sources, we would still get a significant sum in taxes from the higher-ups. After all, the mob bosses aren't about to risk a multi-million dollar operation by having a stolen Rolex on their arm or by driving a stolen Mercedes, either of which, they could have bought for a few thousand dollars legally. That would be as stupid as a guy that just got away with a half a million dollars in a bank heist, getting picked up on shop lifting charges. The big guys aren't going to risk it.
So what, if some of the small fry mobsters manage to get around some sales tax. What we get from the mob bosses and the middle men, who can't afford to be caught with stolen goods, will be a lot more than we are currently getting from the underground economy. While we are trying to figure out a way to beat them, at least the NRST would give us a way to make them help pay for our efforts to put them out of business. In fact, I read an article last year that said that if only the top 2% of mobsters were to pay a 23% sales tax on 90% of their personal purchases, that amount of tax would be more than we are currently expending on fighting organized crime. In other words, organized crime would be footing the entire federal bill for fighting organized crime. That's a d@#n sight better than the income tax has done.
Another point that you should keep in mind, is that all of the Know Your Customer laws that are supposed to target organized crime are actually meant for people like you and me. The last time that I read anything about how many people had been snagged by Know Your Customer, the number of arrests was in the tens of thousands, yet the number of mobsters arrested on Know Your Customer evidence was just two or three. That's because mob money is routed through a long established chain of companies and lawyers that are controlled by other mobsters. By the time the mob boss makes a deposit in his account, the money is clean. The real purpose of Know Your Customer, was to indiscriminately monitor law abiding citizens. In that respect, it's working.
But, the main reason that we must pass the NRST, is that the increasing aggressiveness of the IRS and laws surrounding the collection of taxes, are driving our wealthiest citizens to leave this country in record and increasing numbers and taking all of their wealth with them. Roughly 100,000 people left the United States last year. It's a safe bet that almost all of them were wealthy, rather than poor. Since the top 1% (1.2 million) of taxpayers pay over 36% of all personal income tax collected, if we lost most of that top 1%, everyone who is left would have to support a more than 55% tax increase, just to stay even.
We can either stick with the income tax and and allow organized crime to continue to escape most taxes, while the wealthiest legitimate taxpayers continue to take large amounts of our tax base out of the country with them or we can adopt a NRST and begin collecting significant taxes from organized crime, while capital flight reverses. Tough choice, huh?
You see, like it or not, the NRST is the only way to go at this time.
Uh huh, and since your NRST is revenue neutral, (add to that the run away spending by our RINO president) the present " top 1% (1.2 million) of taxpayers " would have to spend 23% of their GROSS income on new goods and services here in the United States every year or else the rest of us would have to make up the difference, "just to stay even", or if you like, "revenue neutral"....through higher sales gross payment tax rates.
Mr. FROST. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself 30 seconds.Mr. Speaker, the previous speaker was asking about simplicity and how do we understand all of this. Let me read a memo from the Joint Committee on Taxation . This ought to be simple enough for the gentleman to understand.
The memorandum is in response to their request for an estimate of the budget neutral tax rate for H.R. 2525. That is the bill of the gentleman from Georgia (Mr. LINDER), a bill to replace the current U.S. corporate and individual income, estate and gift and Federal income contributions act, payroll taxes, with a flat tax on retail sales of all goods and services.
Then on the second page it has a little chart here, neutral over 5 years, 59.5 percent. That is what they want to do, neutral over 5 years, national sales tax 59.5 percent. I believe the American people can understand that.
So, your point is?
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