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Requiem for a Sniper
The Arizona Republic; Arts & Ideas Section, Page: E16 | March 14, 1999 | Stephen Hunter, Washington Post

Posted on 05/27/2002 7:44:48 AM PDT by Slam

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To: jo6pac
Could you check on it? I'd like to know who this disgraceful bum was.

Yes,I can and will. I have the book around here somewhere,amongst a few hundred other books. I'll probably take the easy way out and hit up the "old-boy" SF network.

BTW,I never heard of Russian tanks being knocked-out by LAWS. Where did this happen? I know there was another place other than Lang Vei were they were used,but can't remember where right now.

101 posted on 06/05/2002 8:36:22 PM PDT by sneakypete
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To: sneakypete
Here's a link

The guys at Lang Vei killed at least two tanks with LAWs.

The South Vietnamese had some success with the LAWs at An Loc, too.

102 posted on 06/05/2002 10:32:38 PM PDT by jo6pac
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To: jo6pac
Joe,below are quotes from one book about what happened at Lang Vei. I am ALMOST certain the one with the quotes I am looking for is a book with the title "Operation Brightlight",but can't find the book now.

As you can see,it looks like we were both right about Westmoreland. He WAS in Saigon when Tet started and Lang Vei was hit,but flew to Da Nang the next day to check what was happening there.

The book is called 'Tanks in the Wire', by David B. Stockwell. Here's some quotes:

"Marine radio operators at Khe Sanh sat in a sober silence as their radio speakers coughed Willoughby's request. "Americans are dying up here. For Christ's sake, help us!"

The Marines refused."

"...the marines believed sending troops over land would get them butchered, the Marines decided. General Westmoreland in Saigon was consulted. The Marines said no again. Colonel Jonathan Ladd, commander of Special Forces in Vietnam, tried to intervene. Westmoreland allowed his commanders closest to the action to decide. The Marines stayed put. By first light, Westmoreland was on a plane to Da Nang to confer with U.S. Marine Corps Lieutenant General Cushman on the state of the Tet Offensive in I Corps."

The Marine artillery...1st Bn, 13th Field Artillery Regiment (1/13) did fire 17 minutes after the first call to them came in. They didn't believe the SF had actual tanks in their wire.

103 posted on 06/06/2002 8:40:08 PM PDT by sneakypete
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To: Grampa Dave
I can remember hearing stories of Navy Brass refusing to give Army Spec Ops rides on Navy ships for missions. Then, the Army Brass not giving seals and marine raiders rides on their helicopters or airplanes capable of bringing in a small fighting force. Then, the Air Force developing its own Spec Ops so not to deal with Navy, Marine or you guys.

The USAF air commandos trace their history back to WWII in Burma with Col. Phil Cochran and his troops carving out DZs and LZs in the jungle behing Japanese lines. The Carpet baggers were also dropping Jegburg teams into Europe in WWII. Never read or heard about USAF having problems working with any spec ops units.

Plenty of good reading about USAF specops and their proud history in Orr Kelly's book "From A Dark Sky". Best pics of USAF air commandos in action would be Randy Jolly's book "Air Commando"

Here a short excerpt from the book by Orr Kelly about the USAF Farmgate crews who flew in the early years of Vietnam and one new pilgrim to flying.

Despite the fiction that they were "advisers," the Farmgate fliers almost immediately began flying combat missions. It was hard, dangerous work. They flew old planes with minimal navigation aids at night and in bad weather against increasingly sophisticated and deadly enemy air defenses, making up tactics on the wing.

One of the hazards was the requirement that the Americans always had to carry a Vietnamese along - to maintain the fiction that they were training the Vietnamese. Any unfortunate Vietnamese who happened to be nearby when a mission was scheduled found himself strapped into an airplane - often the first time he had ever been off the ground.

Richard Secord, then the junior captain among the Farmgate AT-28 pilots and later a major general, thought he was going to die one day because of his Vietnamese passenger.

As he rolled in and started down toward his target, he felt a sudden jolt on the controls. He thought the plane had been hit, Breaking off the attack, he pulled up, decided everything was okay, and rolled in again. Once more, he felt the strange pressure on the controls. His terrified passenger was pulling back on the stick as hard as he could.

Secord ordered him over the intercom to keep his hands off the controls.

Again, he pulled up, rolled in, and headed for the target. This time, he felt the stick jam forward. The dive steepened and the plane headed directly toward the ground. Secord inched the stick back with all his strength, overpowering the terrified Vietnamese. They pulled out just above the trees.

Frightened and furious, Secord pulled his .38-caliber Smith & Wesson pistol as soon as he leveled off and twisted around to point it at his backseater, ready to kill him. Just then, his passenger lost hs lunch all over the cockpit and collapsed into a small bundle of miserable humanity. Secord couldn't bring himself to shoot such a pathetic creature.

104 posted on 06/07/2002 11:13:39 PM PDT by spectr17
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To: sneakypete
Here's a variation from "The Secret Wars of America's Commandos in Vietnam":

In the early morning hours of 6 February 1968, the marines hunkered down at Khe Sanh could hear the anticipated NVA armor attack against the small SF camp at Lang Vei a few miles to the west. Lang Vei's request for the commitment of the planned marine reaction forces received no response. When SF recon personnel at Khe Sanh confronted Colonel David Lownds, the CO of the 26th marines, he declared; he "would not sacrifice any American lives." Major Jim Stanton, Khe Sanh's marine artillery coordinator conceded, "It is true we had an agreement to go to the aid of Lang Vei in the event it was threatened with being overrun, but the situation at the combat base deteriorated so quickly and completely that it should have been obvious to anyone that we could no longer guarantee their security." That morning General Westmoreland flew to Danang and ordered General Robert Cushman to provide helicopter support to lift a small, 50 man SF and Montagnard, reaction force to Lang Vei. He had to issue orders to Cushman's subordinates, violating the marine chain of command, to get it done.

105 posted on 06/08/2002 7:33:02 AM PDT by jo6pac
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To: Slam
BUMP.............Nuff Said.......
106 posted on 06/08/2002 7:36:25 AM PDT by litehaus
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To: DeathtoAraratHamasHizbollah
Having been in LRRPs in Viet Nam from 67to 69, I remember another saying we used to have, "The only thing I feel when I shoot an NVA (North Vietnamese Army Regular) Is the recoil from my M-16!" Also another one, "For those who fight for it, Life holds a flavor the protected will never know"
107 posted on 06/08/2002 7:52:35 AM PDT by Desparado
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To: jo6pac
Thanks for this great follow up Sneaky Pete's reply!
108 posted on 06/08/2002 9:39:42 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: Grampa Dave
Nothing great here, Don't believe everything you read.

This 'scholar' starts out with BS: "In the early morning hours of 6 February 1968..."

The armor attack was the morning of the 7th. I realize that might be nitpicking, but if he can't even get the dates right, why should you believe anything else he writes?

109 posted on 06/08/2002 10:36:19 AM PDT by jo6pac
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To: jo6pac
Isn't it a pain that just about every so called scholar, writer and reporter can't even get the dates of the events correct! Even if the story is correct after that, it has the scent of taint!
110 posted on 06/08/2002 10:39:37 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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To: RaceBannon
Carlos Hathcock was NOT the best! Mawhinney was!! He got over 100 kills in Vietnam!

IIRC, I read a story in The Los Angeles Times about how Mawhinney retired to
relative obscurity in rural Oregon after his service. When his record was publicized,
he and his family had some uncomfortable moments with neighbors/locals.

I guess I must be a "militarized" civilian that enjoys target shooting...I wouldn't
have hesitated to shake the hands of a guy like that.
I guess the general public thinks of snipers as assassins; they do life-saving work
in the final analysis.
111 posted on 06/08/2002 10:52:28 AM PDT by VOA
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To: jo6pac
That morning General Westmoreland flew to Danang Yup,he wasn't already there.

and ordered General Robert Cushman to provide helicopter support to lift a small, 50 man SF and Montagnard, reaction force to Lang Vei.

These guys got in and got out with no real problems,and rescued a couple of SF guys who were still alive and holed-up in the camp dispensary or radio room. This was below the famous photo where the NVA tank was spinning it's threads over the entrance to try and bust in. Unfortunately,they didn't get there in time to save all of them,and some of that A team dissapeared into captivity.

112 posted on 06/08/2002 7:47:08 PM PDT by sneakypete
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To: Slam
Dear SLAM

I am a High School ROTC cadet and i have wanted to be a Marine, more than likely a Sniper, most of the reason for this is reading books on Marines and talking to Retired Marines and Active Duty Marines as well. I thank you very much for taking the time to write an excelent and superb article on Carlos Hathcock , the biography by Charles Henderson is finaly getting the credit it, and the credit Carlos Hathcock dies , that book is the main reason i want to be a Marine. Thank you for giving Hathcock the credit and respect he and the Marine Corps Snipers deserve, thank you again for pointing out alot of things and writing a great article about an even greater man, the only regret i have about reading this article is that all of this respect and credit that Hathcock is getting is Posthumously , that is after death.
113 posted on 11/30/2003 1:35:15 AM PST by Cadet-Sergeant Wes
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