How Tyranny Came to America

Sobran's ^ | n/a | Joe Sobran

[JohnGalt]

Did you overlook my breakdown of Industrial Era politics, exploitation of the capitalists by the workers?

I am a patriot (I love the land of my fathers) but I am not a nationalist; I hold less to Washington DC than the forefathers to Mother England.

[philman_36]

I didn't overlook anything.

(I love the land of my fathers)
What is the land of your fathers?

[philman_36]

How about you NMC EXP? Do you hate democracy too?

[JMJJR]

bump

[rdavis84]

Too Long. The generation that's due to inherit this mess doesn't even read the directions to their newest Video Games.

[Jack Black]

here is their web site...

Have a great day !!

[JohnGalt]

Patriotism: An irrational attatchment to the Anglo-Saxon-Germanic (Volk) principal of blood and soil. My ancestors have fought in every American War, so I feel like this is my land, even though I rationally understand that I have no property rights to the nation-state.

I have no cultural attachment to my American state (the way General Lee felt about Virginia, for example) but I still love the 'land' because my 'fathers.'

I have no intention of leaving and shedding the shackles of 'tyranny of location' but rest assured, many a wise citizen is doing just that.

Government will continue to be a place that societies 'losers' turn to to 'correct' things by taking from the haves and giving to the have nots. But the haves are slowly 'dropping out' or as my name suggests (see Atlas Shrugged) they are going on strike.

In the end, I ask Conservatives just what are they conserving? I suggest we concentrate on conserving English, the Christian ethic, American football, the Easter and Christmas Holidays rather than the NEA, Department of Education blah blah blah...

[philman_36]

Did you read down the whole thread? That was what I was wanting you to see. The bird isn't the only one it seems.

[philman_36]

Patriotism: An irrational attatchment to the Anglo-Saxon-Germanic (Volk) principal of blood and soil.
Would you mind telling me where you got this definition from or if you made it up yourself?
You don't seem able to answer a straightforward question with a straightforward answer, yet you may surprise me.

[inquest]

If Washington and Jefferson, Madison, and Hamilton could come back, the first thing they’d notice would be that the federal government now routinely assumes thousands of powers never assigned to it — powers never granted, never delegated, never enumerated.

Of all the men he names in this sentence, there's one who shouldn't be too surprised at the way things have turned out: Hamilton. Early on, he argued (against Madison's fervent opposition) that the federal government has the power to spend in just about any way it pleases - that the limitations on federal power are only limitations on legislating, not spending.

[JohnGalt]

Patriotism has it roots in the Greek (patria), however, as a cultural rationalist from the English tradition, I feel I must note that patriotism does not have roots in rationalism, but on the contrary, "blood and soil" (the German word volk) has been a staple of my cultural roots as an Anglo-Saxon. Murry Rothbard layed out a property rights explanation for what amounts to patriotism, however, I think patriotism is emotional not rational; it comes from the heart not the mind.

Anyway, to your former point, the only truly American philosophy is pragmatism, and they believed that most misunderstandings between men are a result of using different definitions for the same word. Orwell called it political speak; like those who interchange nationalism for patriotism or refer to the United States as a democracy rather than a republic, calling a radical indivdualist a socialist, have a political agenda for doing so...

[philman_36]

BTW...I understand your view having read Rand on a couple of occasions. I'm completely familiar with what you're saying.
I'm also familiar with what your name implies.
Maybe I'm like Dagney or Hank Reardon...choosing to fight on until all hope is lost. I'll look for Galt's Gulch then, if I'm able.
While in the Navy we learned shipboard firefighting. I still think of the instructors saying, "Where are you going to go? Fight the fire, the shore might be a long way off and the waters are apt to be shark infested."

[philman_36]

Pragmatism, Social Identity, Patriotism, and Self-Criticism
Something along those lines?

[philman_36]

...I think patriotism is emotional not rational; it comes from the heart not the mind.
I also believe patriotism is emotional. I do, however, believe that it can also be rational.
I'm all too familiar with the concept of pragmatism also. See the shipboard fire analogy above. While a crude example, it is comparable in pragmatism.
You stated...I have no intention of leaving and shedding the shackles of 'tyranny of location' but rest assured, many a wise citizen is doing just that.
Where will they go that even gives the potential promise that America gives us?
Despite your taken screen name, you seem to be more of a Dagny or Hank Reardon yourself. You've not left yet for your own Gulch.

[NMC EXP]

How about you take a few deep breaths and try to restate your position.

Regards

J.R.

[lawdog]

After reading this post I only have one thing to say about Sobran. " I am not worthy". Excellent article.

[rdavis84]

I think this has been posted some time back, but not sure. Didn't see it in a quick search. But if this is the right copyright date ---Copyright © 1994, 1999 by the Vere Company ------ it's a Standard. True and accurate for the most part, but now things have accelerated.

[NMC EXP]

the new citizens of the Information Age thinks time is better spent pursuing happiness than playing with Industrial Era, exploitation of the capitalist, politics.

You dismiss the Constitution as an admirable "relic" and speak of the desires of the "new citizens". Are you advocating that the "tyranny of the majority" should prevail?

Regards

J.R.

[JohnGalt]

Rearden was clearly the central hero of Atlas Shrugged, an old school, noble if not chivalrous, well intentioned 'Conservative' of the Industrial Era. In the end, the reader knew his fight was hopeless, but loved the effort. Clearly an American (anti)hero, if not a full circle, Greek tragedy figure.

Sobran and the paleo-cons make a living as intellectuals appealing not to the Rearden ideal but to the temptation of nihilism, the part of Rearden's character who saw John Galt as the 'problem' not an ally.

Lamenting the fall of the Old Republic is an indulgence-- my indulgence is a subscription to Chronicles, however, that we happened to be exist when the world was leaving the Industrial Age and entering the Information Age does not logically conclude with I wish things were like they were back in the Agrarian Age.

[JohnGalt]

I am not a pragmatist, but it is the only homegrown philosophy. I very much agree with their points on linguistics and how we communicate with people from different cultures, ethnicities,...