How did the infidels win?

National Post ^ | June 01 2002 | Bernard Lewis

[rdb3]

War against "evil?" Who is fighting this war and who are the combatants? I'm familiar with the one against terrorism, but not evil.

[rmlew]

Unfortunately, Edward Said's acolytes of Orientalism run Near-East Departments.

[BMCDA]

This infidel sez: interesting read.

[Chairman Fred]

What happened? St. Thomas Aquinas and Ghengis Khan.

Early in the 13th century, Aquinas argued for the validity of Science as the investigation of the will of God. (God made the world and gave us stewardship of it; should we not then investigate it, to better know His creation and thus Him?) At the same time, Muslim mystics were arguing the exact opposite. Shortly thereafter, in 1260, the armies of Ghengis Khan came out of central Asia and sacked Baghdad, and Islam almost collapsed. Islam was always a religion of conquest; Allah's legitimacy usually depended on whether or not his armies were victorious, and in the Sack of Baghdad, they lost. The Caliph was trampled to death by the Khan's horsemen. Islam was saved by the Mamelukes of Egypt, who quickly invented their own Caliph, and then won a victory by fighting scorched-earth war across Syria. I think the decisive battle was at Aleppo, but it may have at - you guessed it - Mount Meggido (Har-Meggido AKA Armageddon).

Anyway, eventually the Mongols did adopt Islam (to better control their subjects) and the Ottoman Turks then began their winning streak until Lepanto in 1572, and finally Vienna.

But the point is that Europe was theologically ready for the Renaissance after Aquinas; Islam was condemned to primitivism by its mystics. The fact that shortly thereafter the irruption of the Mongols (who were at that time pagan) permitted the opening of Europe to the east (as long as Moslems controlled the passage east, Christian Marco Polo would never have made it to China) and thus set Christendom on the road to dominance can only be described as an act of God.

[samtheman]

If the press had any guts --- and I include Fox News --- they would show pictures like this on the boob tube. But they have no guts. They don't want the boobs to know the truth.

[valkyrieanne]

This one is SO easy. Here's why the "infidels" are winning:

- Loaning of money at compound interest rates (forbidden under *both* Islam & medieval Catholicism)

- Many roles for women even in 16th-19th century Western society;

- End to the guild system and the rise of capitalism;

- Widespread literacy and "numeracy" (knowledge of math) largely through more widespread education (for BOTH boys & girls);

- Science;

- The Jewish/Christian worldview (where God is a loving, providential Trinity, caring for his human family vs. God as an abstract master lording it over his slaves.)

[tictoc]

How fortunate that his theories so closely conform to traditional Anglo/Saxon prejudices and yet pay careful homage to the proper multi-cultural pieties.

You got something to say? Then say it - no beating around the bush. Out with it. Now.

[AmericanCheeseFood]

Bookmarking and Bumping for my woman to read.

You have mail.

[SkyPilot]

The civilization that engineered the sleek, antiseptic, bulky rectangles on the tip of Manhattan island will NOT be able to prevail, in the long run, against it's many enemies. It's too fragile--too rootless.

Just 58 years ago, that civilization bleed, died, and buried its finest sons here; to save others.

Today, weekly American church attendance in America is 43%; whereas in Europe it is in the single digits, mostly among the very old. On October 4th 1997, the Washington Mall was filled up from the Capitol reflection pool to the Washington Monument with men, on their faces before God for the Stand in the Gap rally, asking for healing of their nation. When was the last time that took place on the Champs de Eliese?

[My Identity]

Maybe the prime candidate is not the European Union, but China.

Most assuredly. They have been courting each other for awhile now.

China and Saudi Arabia Relations (detailed)
http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/eng/4424.html

The key point, all this started at the end of the cold war.
Hmmmmmmmmmm

[TomSmedley]

But maybe, with some sort of miraculous intervention, the civilization that inspired the tiny church at the base of the Trade Towers--crushed in the collapse--will.

Some of today's most insightful commentators on the real public issues of the day, such as E. Michael Jones, are of the Roman communion. Other, such as R J Rushdoony, are rooted in rigorous Calvinism. The anti-intellectual traditions (fundamentalist) and the anti-christian traditions ("mainline protestantism) contribute more heat than light to the public discourse.

[timestax]

bump

[Mitchell]

China's role, if any, in the current world crisis is not known. It is clear, however, that China stands to benefit from a protracted war between the West and the Muslim world, as such a war would weaken their two main enemies.

I wouldn't put it past China to be taking steps to encourage the Islamic extremists. Meanwhile, the Islamic extremists would hypothetically be taking advantage of Chinese support (much as the mujahideen were willing to accept U.S. support during the Afghan war against the U.S.S.R.). If this is happening, it's an alliance of convenience between the two sides (China and the Muslim world), with each side figuring that it will get the long-term advantage.

This is all very speculative. China has provided military support to Pakistan, even in connection with Pakistan's nuclear program. China reportedly purchased U.S. missiles from Osama bin Laden (the missiles were retrieved by al-Qaeda after a U.S. attack in the 1990's, as I recall). Videotapes of the World Trade Center attack were said to be very popular in China after 9/11, including even at the highest levels of the Chinese government.

The background is also not encouraging. China is doing something with all the information stolen or purchased during the Clinton years. There is lingering resentment over the U.S. bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade. And, of course, the incident with the downed American plane in the first part of 2001 demonstrates the current state of U.S.-China relations. There are repeated reports that China is developing techniques of cyberwarfare (don't just think of vandalism like website defacement -- these techniques would be useful for espionage, for disrupting communications and other computer-controlled intrastructure, for inserting false information into our systems, and generally in support of a traditional attack).

By the way, why do we hear nothing about China's biological weapons program? They must have one.

[justshutupandtakeit]

Little wonder the Islamaniacs hate Bernard Lewis he has their number.

[justshutupandtakeit]

Who can you point us to with a better understanding of the Islamaniacs and their psychotic "prophet" Mad Mo (piss be upon his head)?

[knighthawk]

Ibn Warraq, the writer of the book 'Why I am not a muslim' and writer of articles like:

STATEMENT BY IBN WARRAQ ON THE WORLD TRADE CENTER ATROCITY

An interview

From him:

Nowadays many people are asking questions about the nature of Islam. Apologists of this religion often assert to the media that Islam is a religion of peace. People who have not read any of the Koran often have the same idea, because it sounds familiar to them from media reports. It is usually a Mohammedan true believer who makes such a public proclamation. In today’s political climate, it is likely that a harsh, but honest, exposition of Islam’s central ideas is of interest to Westerners. Talking-head news announcers frequently inform us that Islam is a peaceful religion. When interviews of representatives of Islam are presented, the claimant is seldom pressed to explain the scriptural basis of Islamic intolerance, or why today’s, faith-based terrorists are Islamic. The news presenters do not know enough abut Islam.

One thing that is within our power to accomplish in the near term is to instruct the people who present information to us via the media. If this is done, it may be possible to let independently thinking members of the public discover for themselves that religion is bunk.  

The claimant is rarely asked to explain what the scriptural / spiritual basis of the terrorism is thought to be. The answer, of course, is faith in the Koran. The Koranic dictum should be stated in the press. References should be given. We must argue that it can’t be that the Koran is merely misunderstood. When the Koran urges to kill and to torture the unbeliever, the Jew or the apostate, there is only one possible way this can be understood.

It is the Taliban and the like, who understand the Koran as Mohammed intended! For centuries, the Koran has been interpreted the Taliban way. It is the fundamentalists who act morally with regard to their Holy Scripture. This must be made clear to the public. Once this is understood, anyone may examine the source of the Koran's authority and compare it with that of any other holy scripture. That authority, of course, is faith. Faith can lead to opposite opinions. Because of this, the question may be asked: What value has faith?

The comparison with other religions should not be emphasized initially. People may discover for themselves some parallels with their own religions. For now, the momentum should carry the idea that there is something wrong at the core of Islam. In effect, Islam has invited the relatively free thinking West to enter its Jihad.

[MickMan51]

The civilization that engineered the sleek, antiseptic, bulky rectangles on the tip of Manhattan island will NOT be able to prevail, in the long run, against it's many enemies. It's too fragile--too rootless.

Au contraire, mi amigo.

The American civilization is rooted in Christianity and its concepts, although political correctness, "inclusion," and "diversity" have severely diluted and eroded that foundation. The United States Consitution and the principles that this country were founded upon are HARDLY fragile or rootless -- they are bedrock principles of truth, and as such will stand the test of time IF ADHERED TO. Its many enemies can succeed in defeating American only if they succeed (further) in moving the nation away from its founding ideals.

[crazykatz]

That tiny Church was, ST. NICKOLAS GREEK ORTHODOX CHURCH...so glad you mentioned it.

[Utah Girl]

Another Bernard Lewis ping for you.