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Nuclear Neighbors Teeter on Brink of Armageddon( Maybe hours away from fight feared by entire planet
Guardian ^ | 6-2-02

Posted on 06/02/2002 12:11:35 AM PDT by hope

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To: hope,all
Everybody better stock up on black pepper. If they start nuking each other the price will explode
41 posted on 06/02/2002 9:05:28 AM PDT by watcher1
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To: ex con
"What me worry?"

If as many as twenty or thirty nukes are traded between these stone age barbarians it will be the biggest disaster ever to occur on planet earth.

It will freeze the worlds economy for twenty years. All availabe capital and credit will be used up cleaning up the mess and trying to staunch the radiation induced bleeding. The West will pour ALL available resources into these efforts.

It will be a great pause in all development on this planet. If not the first dominoe in an irreversible chain reaction of distruction.

Al Qaeda and it's friends will burgeon unchecked all over Asia.

42 posted on 06/02/2002 9:16:21 AM PDT by mercy
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To: glorygirl
Fervently while knowing He who is on the throne has it under control.
43 posted on 06/02/2002 10:07:26 AM PDT by hope
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To: All,
That fallout map posted above, along with a description and many more details can be found here...

Trans-Pacific Fallout Here From India/Pakistan Nukes!

44 posted on 06/02/2002 11:27:45 AM PDT by shanec
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To: watcher1
Everybody better stock up on black pepper. If they start nuking each other the price will explode

Time to stock up!

45 posted on 06/02/2002 12:02:03 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: Former Proud Canadian; FightThePower!; Timesink
The parties are kicking a lot of dirt on each other right now. Trying to provoke the other, or prove their bonifides for their constituents back home. The Hindis are leaning forward, the Pakis seem to be doing doing their best (e.g., launchers, missles) to dare India to cross the line.

The leftist paradigm allows the weaker Pakis to attack India via proxy without penalty, while India must show "restraint". India appears well past restraint at this stage. Massive buildups along the LoC by India are a logical step to slow militant infiltrations. Now add to that the muslim 'humiliation' issue, so that the Pakis feel obligated to respond to the Indian build-up. If Pakistan (or the terrorists) engage in some provocation too far, India responds by attacking conventionally. Pakistan responds conventionally, but is soon overwhelmed in the air and at sea. Some Paki field commander, fearing the worst or about to be over-run, resorts to tactical nukes (Paki nuke protocols are reportedly very bad - Musharraf claims he has no control, doesn't know the location of Paki nukes. If they're in the field as reported, even if under "loyal" commanders, their security is significantly at risk). India responds in kind, heavily. Total flight time: 3-5 minutes. The World's Shortest and Deadliest War.

If the Pakis simply backed away from the border and put away their toys, world pressure on India to do likewise would be impossible to ignore. However, that would be 'humiliating' to the Pakis ( It's a Muslim Thing, You Wouldn't Understand© ), so it doesn't seem likely. The US could put its troops in harm's way. That would stop the Hindis, but perversely it would motivate the Paki terrorists. If India pulls back, the Paki fundamentalists would see that as a sign of victory and redouble their efforts. A "Mexican Standoff" of sorts.

Jihadis in Kashmir are the wildcard. Conversations between Washington, New Delhi and Islamabad are meaningless if the terrorists cannot be contained. Paki military middle-management seems reluctant to shut them down. India is unlikely to be 100% successful in stopping infiltrations. Further attacks in Indian-controlled Kashmir and elsewhere are therefore likely to occur. If sufficiently provocative, they could push New Delhi to act -- either low-intensity (targeting militant camps along the LoC) or high-intensity (targeting Paki nukes, command structures, Paki high ground, etc).

The conclusion: apparently the Pakis, a textbook failure of a society, immersed in grinding poverty, swimming in a soup of self-pity, self-righteousness, and self-hatred, infected with jihad fevers, sees martyrdom as an 'honorable' out. They'll welcome war -- and risk everything -- because they have nothing to lose. A societal death wish.

An alternative (and more hopeful) spin on events to date is that Mush is ratcheting up the rhetoric to cover for the crackdown on the jihadis. Mush is whipping the Pakis into a near-frenzy over the nuke option. Meanwhile, he is cracking down on the bad players. India eventually sees that LoC activities have dropped significantly, so they can pull back. Mush can then claim that India withdrew because they feared Paki nukes. Dangerous brinksmanship, but better than the alternative. The surge in evac orders (UK, US, UN) suggests that this scenario is low probability. However, Mush has been saying more conciliatory things in the last 48 hours. But India may not be able to rely on even private US reassurances, so the area rests on a hair trigger.

I think Mush is trying to clamp down on the jihadis, but he does't have complete cooperation. Hopefully he'll convince the ISI troops to cool it for the 2 weeks that India demands. We'll see. Are there any wild-eyed fanatics beyond ISI control out there? Probably. If the jihadis, or even key segments of the Paki military, spin out of control, all bets are off.

The most disconcerting issue is the question of Paki control over their own nukes. There are multiple reports on loose management of Paki nukes. The sources quoted above are not all considered highly reliable, but some (U.S.) seem to be reasonably reliable. And they do paint a consistent picture. Does Musharraf have control? One hopes so, but given the level of sophistication in that part of the world, it is easy to imagine that fail-safe and C&C procedures are weak, especially with tactical nukes. I find it difficult to imagine that Pakistan has multiple, secure, nuclear-storage facilities, for example. The religious, political, and personal ambitions of the key Paki players makes it an interesting brew.

Finally, there is the hope of a deus ex machina scenario that isn't public knowledge. Does the US have assets on the ground or in the sky to help pinpoint the location of Paki nukes in real-time? One fervently hopes.

Freegards,

MI
46 posted on 06/02/2002 3:30:48 PM PDT by My Identity
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To: ex con
Oh there's definitely lots to worry about - not the least of which is some 50,000+ US soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines stationed over there who would die from either blast or the nuclear fallout.
47 posted on 06/02/2002 4:07:15 PM PDT by fogarty
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Comment #48 Removed by Moderator

To: ex con
I disagree. While India definitely will NOT target our troop areas, the resulting fallout WOULD likely kill thousands upon thousands of nearby troops. It is likely Pakistan would start this war, since India has already declared its no-use first policy for nuclear weapons.

But once the Muslim scumbags launch the first missile, all bets are off. If India takes out the far western pakistani cities, which it likely would, the fallout from the prevailing wind would be utterly devastating.

49 posted on 06/02/2002 9:20:21 PM PDT by fogarty
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To: My Identity
Now THAT is a great post. Thanks, MI!
50 posted on 06/02/2002 9:26:59 PM PDT by Timesink
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To: fogarty
Devastating to who? And who cares?
51 posted on 06/02/2002 9:38:57 PM PDT by Lower55
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To: FightThePower!
No, because capitulating to Pakistan's threats of nuclear strikes would send the message that Pakistan could hold India hostage with future threats. Unfortunately, that's the way the world works.
52 posted on 06/02/2002 9:39:48 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Lower55
Devastating to US troops. And I care. I have many friends in the Marine Corps, Army and Navy who are currently stationed in Pakistan, Afghanistan and in the Indian Ocean.

But if you could care less for the tens of thousands of US troops and civilians that would die from a nuclear exchange between India and Pakistan, then you are too apathetic to deserve living here.

53 posted on 06/02/2002 9:47:10 PM PDT by fogarty
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To: Timesink
Thanks for the kind words.
54 posted on 06/02/2002 9:48:26 PM PDT by My Identity
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To: fogarty
I'd get them out,mr. genius, then I'd beat them to it. I couldn't possibly care less if the both of them(or the whole region) were wiped off the face of the earth.
55 posted on 06/02/2002 9:51:12 PM PDT by Lower55
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