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Pornography: Formula for Despair
CERC ^ | Donald DeMarco

Posted on 06/17/2002 8:25:38 PM PDT by JMJ333

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To: Palladin
You're right. I just checked out whitehouse.com. Porn pictures, just like you said.
41 posted on 06/17/2002 9:00:58 PM PDT by Savage Beast
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To: Savage Beast
Since you are inclined to disagree with the article, can you explain your disagreement? Thanks.
42 posted on 06/17/2002 9:01:01 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: JMJ333
Yeah, I'll address something the author seems to disregard completely. The First Amendment. Or do you think that only applies to blue-nosed sermons?
43 posted on 06/17/2002 9:01:05 PM PDT by ozzymandus
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To: PJ-Comix
Ok, PJ. I've got it. You have no argument except that you like porn, therefore the article has no worth. Thanks for posting.
44 posted on 06/17/2002 9:02:21 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: PJ-Comix
Brilliant analysis.
Pornography is reductionist. It reduces the personality, the beauty, the love, the intimacy of humans into the lowest, smallest marketable package possible. Then very small people who will never grow up buy it. It is an addictive contaminent in the minds of children and adults, who will never find satisfaction even as they purchase more and more of it.
45 posted on 06/17/2002 9:02:57 PM PDT by ValerieUSA
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To: ozzymandus
Again, where did it say anything about law or government? And I see it didn't take you long to resort to attacking my religious beliefs. You guys have no argument and have to resort to bait and switch. Somehow this is all a conspiriacy to take away your right to porn. In reality, the article is exactly right and you have no clue as to how to refute it.
46 posted on 06/17/2002 9:05:16 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: JMJ333
If you want to get all worked up about Porno, fine. I have a much bigger beef with DRUNK DRIVERS because they can do me actual harm. I was recently cut off on I-95 by a drunk driver who quickly changed lanes without even noticing that he was headed straight for a collision into my car. Then I hit my brakes as he went in front of me by inches. Then the moron hit his brakes, almost causing a second collision.

If somebody views some porno, it doesn't get me killed like that idiot on the road almost caused to happen to me.

47 posted on 06/17/2002 9:06:47 PM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: JMJ333
 

 Jeannine LeBlanc

                         PORNOGRAPHY HAS A PLACE IN SOCIETY

So what then is the problem with pornography? None of these issues is new. Is it morally wrong in and of itself? The conclusion
has to be no. Pornography no more contributes to crime and deviant behavior than does the writer who creates the murder
mystery. It is merely a tool, and likely one of many, for the deviant mind that chooses to commit an act of violence.

In the 1965 Gephard study it was confirmed from police reports that sex offenders often have pornography in their possession.
But this same study also concluded that there was no difference between male sex offenders and nonoffenders in their exposure
rates to pornography. (Olen & Barry, 1996). People read about murder in great detail today, but relatively few commit the act
as a result. Even if a sex offender views pornography, how can anyone be certain that he would not have committed the crime
anyway?

Not even the U.S. Commission on Pornography and Obscenity can conclusively say there is a link between pornography and
negative sociocultural effects. One objection seems to be that of forcing individuals to either participate in it or to view it against
their will. And, as always and without question, it is considered immoral to bring children into this dark world for the obvious
reasons.

Not everyone holds a negative view of the pornography industry. If one accepts the view that pornography leads to violence
and sexual aggression it will be difficult for them to look at the other side. Pornography can provide pleasure to those who find it
appealing, and it can boost a waning sexual relationship.

It is used in therapeutic techniques as discussed by Barry M. Maletsky in his book Treating the Sexual Offender. He has
designed a reconditioning exercise called Saturation Aversion that involves requiring the client to masturbate to pornographic
material and to continue this exercise for the 30 minutes immediately following orgasm. The client reported physical irritation and
lack of rearousal during this period, sensations that would hopefully teach him to associate a negative result with his behavior.
(Maletzsky, 1991).

Another technique, called fading, used also as a reconditioning exercise for treating pedophiles, involves showing slides of young
girls to the client, followed by a rapid change to pornographic slides of adult women. The slides of the young girls are gradually
decreased over time until only adult slides remain. Ideally, sexual pleasure becomes associated with the adult slides rather than
the pictures of young girls over the treatment time. (Maletzsky, 1991)

The Sexual Abuse Clinic of Portland, Oregon has an elaborate collection of pornographic videos, slides, photographs, and
audio tapes for its various treatment plans. All were collected from various patients or confiscated through police investigations.
(Maletzsky,1991).

                                         CONCLUSION

No matter the source, it can be assumed that, in some ways at least, pornography has a positive place in society. To attempt to
censor it, regulate it, or otherwise altar a freedom to choose what one reads or watches for entertainment, gives a few
individuals the power to regulate the arts for the rest of society. What's destroyed in this process may be worse than what's
there in the beginning.

One's feelings about pornography can be determined by whether the individual is taking a passive or active role in either the
viewing or the producing, his or her intentions in this role, and social factors such as age, gender, and religion. With the
exception of perhaps murder, it is difficult to find anything that can universally offend a population,which is the ultimate necessity
for censorship of this material.

This writer concludes that since no one is culture neutral, pornography's effects on society are largely in the eyes of the
beholder, and that issues with pornography and a propensity toward sexual deviation are in the genes, or is it jeans?

                                            References

American Family Association. (retrieved April 21, 1998). Facts about pornography. [online]. Available:
http://www.afa.net/outreach

Downs, David Alexander. (1989). The new politics of pornography. University of Chicago Press. [0nline]. Available:
http://xxx.xxxtaboo.com/pndef.htm

Loth, David. (1961). The erotic in literature: a historical survey of pornography as delightful as it is indiscreet. New York, NY:
Jillian Messner, Inc.

Maletzsky, Barry M. (1991). Treating the sexual offender. Newbury Park, CA: SAGE Publishers, Inc.

Mcclelland, Abbey. (1997). The effects of pornography. [online]. Available: http://samiam.colorado.edu/~mcclelaj/negative.html

Mcclelland, Abbey. (1997). The benefits of pornography. [online]. Available:
http://samiam.colorado.edu/~mcclelaj/crime.html

Mcclelland, Abbey. (1997).Violence and agression. [online]. Available: http://samiam.colorado.edu/~mcclelaj/rapemyth.html

McClelland, Abby. Opinions of women. (retreived 4/20/98). [online]. Available:
http://samiam.colorado.edu/~mcclelaj/benefit.htm

Matrix, Cherie. (retrieved April 20, 1998). Women and British porn laws. Free Inquiry magazine, Volume 17, Number 4.
Available: http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/matrix_17_4.html

Olen, J. and Barry., V. (1996). Applying ethics: A text with readings (5th ed.) . Belmont, CA: Wadsworth Publishing Co.

Unauthored. Sobel, Lester A. (Ed.). (1979). The age of porn. Pornography, Obscenity and the Law. [online]. Available:
http://xxx.xxxtaboo.com/pndef.htm

Unauthored. (April 2, 1998). Internet porn restriction moving ahead in Congress. Reuters, Ltd. [online]. Available:
http://www.senate.gov/~coats/prip.html

Unauthored. (December, 1996). The Internet Museum of Pornography, Kobenhavn, Denmark. [online]. Available:
http://www.imp.dk/museum/ENT_HALL/ENTHALL.htm#EXHIBITS

Unauthored. (retrieved April 21, 1998). Definition of pornography. [online]. Available: http://trfn.pgh.pa.us/guest/mrfoot.html

Unauthored. (retrieved April 21, 1998). The effects of pornography. [Online]. Available:
http://www.umd.umich.edu/HyperNews/get/106/finporn/10.html

Unauthored. (retrieved April 22, 1998). The ethics connection: the impact of sexually explicit materials and pornography.
[Online]. Available: http://www.scu/Ethics/practicing/focusareas/technology/libraryaccess/impact,shtml

Unauthored. (November, 1995). Mackinnon: pornography is oppression. The Ethical Spectacle. [online]. Available:
http://spectacle.org/1195/mack.html"

Webster, Daniel. Webster's revised unabridged dictionary. (1913). [online]. Available:
http://work.ucsd.edu:5141/cgibin/http_webster?isindex=pornography&method=exact
 

48 posted on 06/17/2002 9:08:03 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: PJ-Comix
Try and stay on topic.
49 posted on 06/17/2002 9:08:13 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: PJ-Comix
I agree, PJ. I hate being spammed with porno sites.

I also hate having filthy language and visuals paraded across the TV screen when my daughter or son is present. I was particularly offended once in Amsterdam, when, in a checkout line, I was subjected to close-up photos of fellatio on magazine covers in the presence of my teenage son.

On the other hand, I am an adult, and if I choose to watch skin-flicks, it's nobody's business but my own. And as to whether or not it is harmful to me--I'm the best judge of that.

50 posted on 06/17/2002 9:09:01 PM PDT by Savage Beast
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To: JMJ333
You have no argument except that you like porn, therefore the article has no worth.

It's not that I like porn (most nowadays is very boring). It's just that I don't really get all worked up into a frenzy over it. On a scale of "evils" it ranks mighty low. Definitely much lower than drunk driving which I mentioned.

51 posted on 06/17/2002 9:09:54 PM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: JMJ333
then I shouldn't be surprised because the number of people on a conservative forum who champion porn as a virtue

Ain't that the truth. Either they are shallow-minded perverts or have never witnessed first hand a family torn apart by pornography.

52 posted on 06/17/2002 9:10:33 PM PDT by PistolPaknMama
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To: gcruse
Again, there is nothing in the article that mentions cencorship. I know that bugs you guys because it takes away 99.999% of your argument. And the article you posted refutes nor address one item in the article I posted. Can we discuss one of the issues? Perhaps reductionism? I'll be nice and even let you choose which topic covered you want to tackle.
53 posted on 06/17/2002 9:11:39 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: JMJ333
No.
54 posted on 06/17/2002 9:12:33 PM PDT by Savage Beast
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To: Savage Beast
Ok.
55 posted on 06/17/2002 9:15:21 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: PJ-Comix
Strange, isn't it, that only in the past few years 16 year old high school guys would complain about being seduced by their hot teachers. In times past they kept their mouths shut and enjoyed the action. And if they did complain to the cops (which never happened) they would have been laughed out of the police station.

Oh, really? So then, you fault all the boys who complained about the priest's molestations?

A little twisted are you?

56 posted on 06/17/2002 9:15:22 PM PDT by It's me
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To: JMJ333
Ok: suppose the article is 100% correct. What is the implication? The implication (when you post to a political forum where people debate things like policy) is that porn should not be voluntarily consumed much less sanctioned. Another implication is that porn is a manifestation of capitalism run amok: that is, the porn industry flourishes more or less UNCHECKED by regulators of some sort (government, anyone?). The article never says that directly, but it's pretty obvious that's the implication.

I don't really care one way or the other if porn is good or bad. Maybe it's net effect on society is bad. If so, what should be done? If the answer is, 'educate people that it's bad but don't get the government involved', well, fine. Beyond that--well, what would you suggest?

57 posted on 06/17/2002 9:16:05 PM PDT by HassanBenSobar
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To: mlmr
"my waiting room and many other counselors are filled with marriages wrecked on the shoals of pornography."

Yet others are filled with marriages wrecked on the rocks of golf, the reefs of debt, the minefields of substance abuse. Addictions, from porn to bingo... the common threads are compulsiveness, immaturity and lack of character. One person's recreational diversion may be the next person's eternal damnation.

58 posted on 06/17/2002 9:16:24 PM PDT by Harrison Bergeron
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To: gcruse
"Libertarians join forces with modern liberals in opposing censorship, though libertarians are far from being modern liberals in other respects. For one thing, libertarians do not like the coercion that necessarily accompanies radical egalitarianism. But because both libertarians and modern liberals are oblivious to social reality, both demand radical personal autonomy in expression. That is one reason libertarians are not to be confused, as they often are, with conservatives. They are quasi- or semiconservatives. Nor are they to be confused with classical liberals, who considered restraints on individual autonomy to be essential.

"The nature of the liberal and libertarian errors is easily seen in discussions of pornography. The leader of the explosion of pornographic videos, described admiringly by a competitor as the Ted Turner of the business, offers the usual defenses of decadence: 'Adults have the right to see [pornography] if they want to. If it offends you, don't buy it.' Those statements neatly sum up both the errors and the (unintended) perniciousness of the alliance between libertarians and modern liberals with respect to popular culture.

"Modern liberals employ the rhetoric of 'rights' incessantly, not only to delegitimate the idea of restraints on individuals by communities but to prevent discussion of the topic. Once something is announced, usually flatly or stridently, to be a right --whether pornography or abortion or what have you-- discussion becomes difficult to impossible. Rights inhere in the person, are claimed to be absolute, and cannot be deminished or taken away by reason; in fact, reason that suggests the non-existence of an asserted right is viewed as a moral evil by the claimant. If there is to be anything that can be called a community, rather than an agglomeration of hedonists, the case for previously unrecognized individual freedoms (as well as some that have been previously recognized) must be thought through and argued, and "rights" cannot win every time. Why there is a right for adults to enjoy pornography remains unexplained and unexplainable.

"The second bit of advice --'If it offends you, don't buy it' -- is both lulling and destructive. Whether you buy it or not, you will be greatly affected by those who do. The aesthetic and moral environment in which you and your family live will be coarsened and degraded. Economists call the effects an activity has on others 'externalities'; why so many of them do not understand the externalities here is a mystery. They understand quite well that a person who decides not to run a smelter will nevertheless be seriously affected if someone else runs one nearby.

"Free market economists are particularly vulnerable to the libertarian virus. They know that free economic exchanges usually benefit both parties to them. But they mistake that general rule for a universal rule. Benefits do not invariably result from free market exchanges. When it comes to pornography or addictive drugs, libertarians all too often confuse the idea that markets should be free with the idea that everything should be available on the market. The first of those ideas rests on the efficacy of the free market in satisfying wants. The second ignores the question of which wants it is moral to satisfy. That is a question of an entirely different nature. I have heard economists say that, as economists, they do no deal with questions of morality. Quite right. But nobody is just an economist. Economists are also fathers and mothers, husbands or wives, voters citizens, members of communities. In these latter roles, they cannot avoid questions of morality.

"The externalities of depictions of violence and pornography are clear. To complaints about those products being on the market, libertarians respond with something like 'Just hit the remote control and change channels on your TV set.' But, like the person who chooses not to run a smelter while others do, you, your family, and your neighbors will be affected by the people who do not change the channel, who do rent the pornographic videos, who do read alt.sex.stories. As film critic Michael Medved put it: ' To say that if you don't like the popular culture, then turn it off, is like saying if you don't like the smog, stop breathing. . . .There are Amish kids in Pennsylvania who know about Madonna.' And their parents can do nothing about it.

"Can there be any doubt that as pornography and depictions of violence become increasingly popular and increasingly accessible, attitudes about marriage, fidelity, divorce, obligations to children, the use of force, and permissible public behavior and language will change? Or that with the changes in attitudes will come changes in conduct, both public and private? We have seen those changes already and they are continuing. Advocates of liberal arts education assure us that those studies improve character. Can it be that only uplifting reading affects character and the most degrading reading has no effects whatever? 'Don't buy it' and 'change the channel,' however intended, are effectively advice to accept a degenerating culture and its consequences.

"The obstacles to censorship of pornographic and viloence-filled materials are, of course, enormous. Radical individualism in such matters is now pervasive even among sedate, upper middle-class people. At a dinner I sat next to a retired Army general who was no a senior corporate executive. The subject of Robert Mapplethorpe's photographs came up. This most conventional of dinner companions said casually that people ought to be allowed to see whatever they wanted to see. It would seem to follow that others ought to be allowed to do whatever some want to see.... Any serious attempt to root out the worst in our popular culture may be doomed unless the judiciary comes to understand that the First Amendment was adopted for good reasons, and those reasons did not include the furtherance of radical personal autonomy."

Robert Bork, Slouching Towards Gomorrah, pp. 150-152.

59 posted on 06/17/2002 9:16:56 PM PDT by Chunga
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To: PJ-Comix
"In times past they kept their mouths shut and enjoyed the action. "

That was back when they could be pretty sure they weren't going to be sued for child support.

60 posted on 06/17/2002 9:18:23 PM PDT by Harrison Bergeron
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