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Liberty Is Overrated--Safety Should Be Our First Concern*
Ever Vigilant ^ | 06-19-2002 | Lee R. Shelton IV

Posted on 06/19/2002 11:33:59 AM PDT by sheltonmac

Those worrying about the erosion of liberty in this time of crisis often quote Benjamin Franklin, who said, "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." The problem with this advice is that it is well over two centuries old, and no one back then could have imagined the dangers we face today. We are at war and should be expected to sacrifice some liberty for safety.

According to a national poll taken recently by the Institute for Social Research at the University of Michigan, seven out of 10 Americans said that they would give up at least some of their civil liberties to improve security. That shouldn't be at all surprising considering the magnitude of the terrorist threat to our nation as well as the rest of the free world.

The same poll showed that about 90 percent of Americans favor having more police assigned to patrol public areas. 70 percent believe that there should be a law requiring adults to carry a national ID card with their photograph and Social Security number, and roughly half support the idea of random police searches in public places.

It is clear that most of America is behind the president in his effort to eradicate terrorism. The few individuals who are not seem to be those who are clinging too tightly to their precious Constitution. They refuse to give up even the smallest right, when doing so might mean the difference between victory and defeat.

These people, whether they realize it or not, are the terrorists' strongest allies in this war. Any attempt to detract from the plans of our president and his administration is tantamount to treason. If they can't learn the concept of "go along to get along," they need to be silenced. This war needs to be won-no matter what the cost.

When terrorists attacked our shores on Sept. 11, the fear-mongers immediately launched into their tirades against U.S. foreign policy, particularly our support for Israel. They talked about how the actions of our "empire" fueled the hatred of Islamic fundamentalists and how we should adopt a more isolationist position on global matters. All this, of course, is nonsense.

While the United States may have been able to avoid foreign entanglements at one time, we must realize that this is the 21st Century. This is not the world our forefathers knew. The Constitution may have been good enough for a fledgling nation 200 years ago, but we must evolve beyond such a narrow worldview if we hope to remain a global superpower.

Ronald Reagan once called us to be a "city on a hill," a place upon which all eyes of the world would be cast. If we allow a dusty old document like the Constitution to prevent us from doing what is necessary, we shall lose the respect of those who look to our nation as an example of greatness. No, we must maintain our lofty position in the world, and if that means behaving like an empire, so be it. The only alternative would be to succumb to terrorism, and that cannot be an option.

We need to be more positive. We need to be more supportive of our government, especially now. The president should not be criticized for doing his duty as Commander in Chief. Yet, through it all, there are those who not only see the glass of liberty as half-empty, they see it as the wrong beverage. This unpatriotic attitude was evident when President Bush signed the Patriot Act into law.

I feel I should point out that when President Bush signed the Patriot Act, he was doing what nearly half of all registered voters who actually bothered to vote elected him to do-lead. The people of this nation wanted a leader with an iron resolve and this president has shown that he is the man for the job. Rather than get behind the spirit of the Patriot Act, some disgruntled people would rather focus on the ambiguous aspects of the legislation and live in fear of the worst-case scenario.

As the poll above shows, this administration is merely doing the will of the people. Doing anything else would not bode well for the GOP this November. It would also hurt the president's chances of getting re-elected in 2004, and ensuring his re-election is absolutely vital to winning this war on terror. No other politician has shown such dedication and strength of character. Honestly, I shudder to imagine where this country would be without President Bush at the helm.

To those who insist on holding firm to the Constitution and making the government's job harder than it has to be, let me remind you that WE ARE AT WAR. Get behind the president and show your support. All of your worries are unfounded. If history is any indication, every civil liberty you give up now will be promptly restored once this war is over. That's a promise.

Liberty is overrated. Safety is what counts during times of crisis. After all, how can liberty be enjoyed if one cannot feel safe?


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government
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To: A CA Guy
I have friends who earned millions last year that didn't pay anything near that rate.

You and your rich friends don't know much about all the hidden and duplicated taxes in everything you buy, do you? Ah well - ignorance is bliss, especially when you have millions...

141 posted on 06/19/2002 3:44:11 PM PDT by Jefferson Adams
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To: A CA Guy
The only dolt would be the one paying over 50% in taxes.

SSSSHHHHHH - go back to sleep.

142 posted on 06/19/2002 3:45:09 PM PDT by Jefferson Adams
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To: sheltonmac
re: post #120 - well done :)
143 posted on 06/19/2002 3:47:26 PM PDT by Jefferson Adams
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To: headsonpikes
Lots of us were!

I still am, for that matter.

Yeah, it cracked me up too, in a kinda sad sorta way as I watched the Let's Rollers agree with it and defend it.

Sigh...

144 posted on 06/19/2002 3:49:59 PM PDT by Jefferson Adams
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To: sheltonmac
Dang! How in the world could I have forgotten that crucial little bit of information? You have to admit that it made for a more interesting thread, no?

Well, I got it from the get go. The clue was there. But you are correct. It is very interesting, if discouraging.

Discouraging because people tend to knee jerk rather than to absorb and reflect. That may be a characteristic of the cyber world; especially those who have not had much conventional education or read books.

145 posted on 06/19/2002 3:50:23 PM PDT by don-o
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To: sheltonmac
There is nothing in this essay that hasn't been previously uttered by post-9/11 "conservatives."

That's the sad part.

146 posted on 06/19/2002 3:50:57 PM PDT by Jefferson Adams
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To: sheltonmac
Too many "conservatives" have used the very arguments put forth in the essay to justify more government encroachment on our liberties.

YES!!!!

RINO is a familiar acronym around here.

Is there a doubt that the CINO is a greater threat?

147 posted on 06/19/2002 3:55:47 PM PDT by don-o
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To: don-o
"...read books."

You must be a reactionary; citizens only need to know how to shout slogans.

Reading leads to critical thinking and who needs all that negativity?
148 posted on 06/19/2002 4:01:37 PM PDT by headsonpikes
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To: sheltonmac
Ha! I know what you're doing, Lee. My uncle used to always joke that to keep flies out of your kitchen, put a bucket of $#!+ in the living room. ahaha
149 posted on 06/19/2002 4:01:44 PM PDT by Twodees
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To: A CA Guy
You sound like one of those goobers who thinks his yearly refund from the IRS is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
150 posted on 06/19/2002 4:06:37 PM PDT by Twodees
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To: dead
A person suggested the showers were good for the Jews as well, which to me suggested that America would gas their own people as the German Nazi's did the Jews. (When taken in the context of the article above).
I told them that was outrageous thinking and asked did they get that kind of thinking form their mom at home? Did they attempt to gas THEM? Is that where that kind of thinking came from? Where in America today are we going to find people getting gassed like the Jews were? America today can not have that happen.
(I throw back some absurdity to show how absurd their view is.)
We all know there is no chance their MOM would gas them in reality. We also know there is zero chance of this elsewhere in America either. Only a criminal would do that.

Using the words VERY YOUNG is a nice way of saying you cuss too much.

I recently on the topic of drugs and employees elsewhere had stated that employers should not be put at risk and drug testing is reasonable. That if a person felt that was against their principles they should not yak about that, but seek self employment. (Drug dealing not included).

On the topic of drugs with one of the addict warriors I have stated if you are so for the drugs, drug your whole family first as an example and report back what is left of it in a year. I said you would most likely find everybody unemployed and your mom and sister working the streets if they regularly did drugs. That there would be NO family in the end of a year.

These are consistent thoughts I say often when others suggest vices on EVERYONE as normal. I don't believe society should be responsible for the bill that surrounds drug problems, nor the crime. It also isn't cool to get high while you have children at home. If there isn't a sober adult there supervising I think the kids should get removed from the home.
I often use an absurd example in a response to reflect back the absurdity of the thinking presented by some people.

I'd rather argue anyone and just disagree than see anyone have to leave. Accidents can happen as it is, nobody here should try to play it so close as to loose the privilege of posting here.
151 posted on 06/19/2002 4:36:07 PM PDT by A CA Guy
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To: Twodees
Refund? I have to pay estimated tax. It is not deducted for me.
I pay what I am supposed to, but you don't have to just throw yourselves to the wolves Twodees. I think it is best to use the laws that best favor you when it comes to your money.
As far as someone being happy about seeing some money back in a refund? Hey, why the heck not? I hope they enjoy spending it as well.
152 posted on 06/19/2002 4:43:50 PM PDT by A CA Guy
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To: sheltonmac

Don't agree.. Because without Liberty we can never be safe..

It's a nice line though. Sounds good, get's good marks on the warm and fuzzy scale... Hitler felt the same way when the Reichstag burned.

PS: And anyone who thinks fedgov can make us safe from people willing to give their own lives to take ours should have their head examined. They can't even protect us from Armed Robbers and car stero thieves, you think they can make sure you aren't the victim of a terrorist attack by taking your freedom? Come on.. What a stupid argument.

153 posted on 06/19/2002 4:45:44 PM PDT by Jhoffa_
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To: Jefferson Adams
Hey J A, I take it neither of us would want to give up more of our incomes than we need to, right?

I honestly know of no informed person who earns good money that pays the highest taxes.
I think we should pay what we are suppossed to pay, but we should know what we are allowed to do to reduce what we truely owe legally.
154 posted on 06/19/2002 4:50:15 PM PDT by A CA Guy
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To: xvb
Your idea of humor? What is it about Americans being protected from sick Islamist killers bothers you anti-government whiners so much?

A one word answer to your question would be “nothing.”

But we “whiners” can never leave well enough alone.

And let me say we are not “anti-government.” We simply believe that the Constitution defines the government and when the government exceeds the powers granted it by the Constitutions it becomes despotic and must be reigned in or abolished.

As is stated in other posted on this thread the government has all of the Constitutionally granted powers necessary to deal with the terrorist threat. The government however declines to use those powers because it is unwilling to suffer the political risk involved in using those powers.

If Mr. Bush were serious about his oath to the defend the Constitution and uphold the laws of the United States he would be using a readily available profile of the terrorist to stop the terrorist within our boarders and stop new terrorist for entering our country. Further he would use his powers as head of the Executive branch to execute foreign policy and cute off relations with those who support terrorist. Then we could wage war on the terrorist directly instead of the halfhearted measures currently in place.

155 posted on 06/19/2002 4:50:18 PM PDT by Pontiac
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To: Jefferson Adams
If you come across Cecil give me a ping to his thread. The man is a legend
156 posted on 06/19/2002 5:03:12 PM PDT by steve50
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To: A CA Guy
Using the words VERY YOUNG is a nice way of saying you cuss too much.

If I “cussed” even once on this thread, you might have a point. But I didn’t and you don’t.

I said you would most likely find everybody unemployed and your mom and sister working the streets if they regularly did drugs.

Nice revisionist history, but if I recall correctly, your post was more along the lines of “Are you still pimping your mother and your sister?” Of course, I can’t prove that, since the inflammatory post was deleted. If you’re looking for somebody who crosses the line on this forum, check the mirror.

I'd rather argue anyone and just disagree than see anyone have to leave. Accidents can happen as it is, nobody here should try to play it so close as to loose the privilege of posting here.

When you start a forum, and have the power to revoke posting priveleges, I’ll worry about your asinine opinion. As it is, you don’t, so your silly threats ring hollow.

I called you a dope. I calls ‘em as I sees ‘em. Ban me.

157 posted on 06/19/2002 5:05:39 PM PDT by dead
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To: dead
Knowledge is power.
Judging from your posts, that California power crisis is much worse than I thought.

ROFLMFAO, I can't take much more of this
158 posted on 06/19/2002 5:11:27 PM PDT by steve50
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To: Jefferson Adams
If you mean how a Nike shoe starts off at 50 cents and ends up as $60 to you and I you have a good point.
The retailer usually gets at least a 100% mark up. So the shoe gets to be worth $30 before the 50 cent shoes reach the store.
Tariffs, transportation fees (much of which pay foreign lands) bring up the cost.
Yet again, our salaries are also inflated to relate to the higher priced products.
If you look into history of let's say the 40s, a home might cost $3000 and the yearly wage might have only been $1500.

So some of the high prices are reflective of our inflated high pay.

Regarding the wealthy and those worth millions. The ones I know were self-made in one generation. A ditch digger that ended owning a engineering company that profits $5,000,000 a year to the owner as an example.
They all are nice people who give a great deal to charity and have middle class values.
They were bigger risk takers that never gave up and history of such people states that all the wealth transferred to the children will be gone for the great grand children.

In other words, we will get the vast majority of our future wealthy people from other new hard working people that started out with nothing JA! Few remember that fact about our country. We live in a great country.
159 posted on 06/19/2002 5:11:51 PM PDT by A CA Guy
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To: sheltonmac
Did you get what you were looking for?
160 posted on 06/19/2002 5:12:38 PM PDT by Taxman
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